You know Tom if you used the same sort of voodoo math that some of the clubs do you could add up all the stuff that you give away at the rod expo and say that in the end you are actually paying each person about $200 to attend. LOL!

Also thanks for the six free copies of Rodmaker I got with my subscription. What a deal!

I think people are intelligent enough to know what something costs and whether or not it represents a good value to them. I won't be employing any word games and don't feel that I need to.


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What a novel approach!!!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I am not sure what vodoo math, calculus, or differial equations Bill is tthinking about but what I do know is, that many vendors at the show donate items for the reception. (including Rodbuilder Magazine) I do remember who these people are when it comes to me making a decision on who to buy my rodbuilding materials from. Same thing goes as per sponsors of this web site. I can say that I have never had a "bad" expereince with any sponsor of this site.

If Putter does not make it to High Point in 2008, I'm going to fix a bogus ticket for him so Mike Barkley and I can enjoy his two free beers!! Thanks to Tom!! If his ticket wins that Renzetti I'll ship Putter the box (but not the lathe).

Ed Smith

I don't think he was referring to that.

All of the items that are donated by the various manufacturers and dealers are given away as door prizes. Given away, at no charge to anyone. I do not plan to ever sell them via any sort of raffle. I want the attendees to keep their money and spend it with the vendors and bring home more blanks and components for themselves. It's a winning combination as the attendance over the past 4 years has shown.

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Once again I'll have a "Alcohol Torch" to contribute.

It's not much, but it's my way of "giving back". I'm not selling parts (well, a few odds & ends) at my table but it doesn't matter. This is just one more fun thing to do

Lib and I both won rods from Batson last year. I got the biggest kick from her winning - so did she. Never expected that, much less both of us getting lucky. All the comments from the crowd as she brought thge certificate back, about "now you'll have to build her rod" and "oh, boy, another rod to build" just made it that much more fuin. And when she picked up her prize the next day, the way she was treated by the Batson crew - and Bill himself - just made it more special and that much better!

Actually, we were buying Batson's stuff anyway, all along. But now there's a special piece in our personal rack and it doesn't matter if we don't win again (well, OK, that's not quite true) but the fun of it is something she's looking forward to - and that's kind of the whole point.

Hey, Tom, do us a favor and get a mike for next year, so we can all actually hear what you're saying. I know we all promise to listen real close - - -

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Exactly. Glad you enjoyed it.

Each year someone will suggest that I raffle off all those prizes. Frankly, I don't see the point. The bulk of them are donated (I do buy a few) for the purpose of giving them to the builders. Sure, I could sell raffle tickets and charge for the food and put quite a bit of money in my pocket, but I think that would be detrimental to the long term health of the event. I want the vendors to do well and I want the builders to be able to spend what money they have on rod building products, not raffle tickets or food and drink charges. So I let the builders keep their money and just give away the prizes, food and drinks. It's a different philosophy for sure, but as anyone who's been there can see, it works.

I know some of the folks in the far right of the reception room had trouble hearing me last year. But PA systems cost money. I spent the funds to get them for the seminar rooms last year (and will again) but will have to do without them for the reception. Again, I'm not going to start hitting the attendees up for every little thing. This coming year I'll stand on a chair and try to speak a little louder. Plus, the Reception will be held in a different room and one that I think will be better suited for that kind of thing. Hope you can understand.

Again, my priority is the rod builders. This is the only large scale rod building event held anywhere in the world. It's also the only rod building event that actually supports the rod builders and the rod building industry, instead of the other way around. Other crafts have this sort of thing and I want us to continue to have something like this too.

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I was just poking fun! Seriously, I do wish you would move the show around each year. Maybe do an east coast, west coast, midwest rotation. I would think you could make just as much money no matter where you do it as long as it was a good convention town with good airports and good weather. How much difference could it make? What about Florida in the winter? California or Texas? Maybe two shows per year? The show is the best deal in all of rod building but it seems it could be even more if it were expanded and taken around the country.

Bill Napier - How many face to face meetings with the Show Place Staff and Hotel Staff do you think Tom will have or has had to insure that the "thing" comes off as planned. A show like this will not happen when planned totally by "in house convention type staffs". His proximity to the Showplace and the simple fact that this is a one man planning and organizational deal is one of the things that keeps the overall expense down. If he had one in Vegas for the West he would go bust buying airline tickets to attend monthly status meetings. You might say this is the internet day when things can be done online but I would counter that the placement of direct responsibility for each little thing requires "eye ball to eye ball contact". His eyeballs have not failed rodbuilders as yet!

Gon Fishn





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2007 10:57AM by Bill Stevens.

I appreciate your thoughts but I doubt you’re really aware of the difficulty in doing something like this event. I end up explaining this several times each year, I guess once more won’t hurt. It may be bit long, but should explain things.

As far as moving it around, I can’t afford to do that. Jim Upton once commented that if you want to go to DisneyWorld you have to go to Florida. They can’t afford to bring it to you. Maybe that’s not a good analogy, but it’s appropriate. You aren’t likely to understand what I put into this event and how much is riding on it. I play the odds and do my best to ensure things will work like they need to. North Carolina turns out to be the ideal location for this event, and in more ways than one. I can do more for everyone right here in High Point, and I’m firmly convinced this is the single best location for this event. The numbers prove it.

There will always be a problem with the demographics of the widespread rod building craft. Anywhere you do an event where you hope to draw a great many people, most of those who come in will have to travel some distance, and that costs them. In some cases, it costs them a great deal of money. So anything you can do to lessen the financial burden on both the builders and the exhibitors, and the seminar presenters too, is a great help to all involved. But it means you will incur some personal expense. A great deal of it, actually. But it’s what somebody has to do if this craft is to have something like the ICRBE.

Certainly I could do the ICRBE at less investment on my part. I can get a hotel ballroom for free instead of paying the Showplace $25,000 for the use of their facility. I could raise the admission fee to a hundred bucks a person, although that would cut attendance by 90%. (But even with just 150 guys showing up it would still put over $15,000 in my pocket against a free hotel ballroom - so that’d be a nice net profit for me.) But I only charge $8 per day ($15 for both days) so guys can afford to attend and have some money left in their pockets to buy blanks and stuff with.

I don’t have to pay the seminar presenters, but I do. Does anyone else do that? The fact is, I wish I could pay them even more than I do and in the future if I can, I will. They help make the event what it is.

RodMaker Magazine doesn’t have to host a free reception (it’s supposed to be for subscribers only but we’ve never turned anyone away). It cost about $2600 to do this last year and I let everyone in for free, fed them for free and gave away all the door prizes without anyone having to buy anything for a chance to win. And I’ll do so again.

I don’t have to rent parking lots so the builders and the exhibitors can park for free. But I do. I don’t have to negotiate with any hotels for better rates for the attendees. I could just let folks fend for themselves. I don’t have to spend $18,000 on direct mail advertising for the show. I could just throw up some notices about the event on a few rod building message boards and probably get my 150 guys at $100 a pop. The vendors would lose their butts, of course, but I’d still make a mint. But the fact is, I do spend the money necessary to get a great turn out so that the vendors can do very well and everyone has a great time and we can do and offer things that no one else can.

The long and the short of it is that we are involved in what amounts to a comparatively small craft and to have such a large scale show requires a significant investment of both time and money. You can’t just announce that you’re having an event and expect everyone to come out and attend. There is one heck of a lot more to it that than, at least if you want to have a large scale event that draws tons of vendors and rod builders from around the world. And you’ll never have one without the other.

Not trying to toot my own horn, but in some 30 years of active rod building I am still the only one who has been willing to stick their neck out and risk the $40,000 to $50,000 per event that is required to do something for the craft on this size and scale. Sure, everyone wants such a show in their own backyard, but how many are willing to foot the bill to do it? I’ve yet to find even one. I still have detractors wanting to tell me how selfish I am for having the show in my backyard, or not moving it around, or not doing more for the rod builders. But none of the detractors has ever offered to help fund the event or risk their own money, so I just let that sort of stuff roll off my back. Everything is easy when it’s somebody else’s money you’re risking.

I’ll come right out and tell you that for my $45,000+ monetary investment and somewhere around 600 hours of labor, I turned a profit of $2700. A third of that went to a partner who helped me and another third went to the people who helped me sell tickets that weekend. I walked away with a net of just under $800. Of all the people who attended, exhibited, etc., I came out on the bottom for sure. But that’s okay. I’ve said many times that this event isn’t about me making money - I do it for the craft and the industry, otherwise we wouldn’t have something like this. Sure, I could charge more; hit everybody up for everything and put many thousands of dollars in my pocket. But then the event wouldn’t be what it is and at that point, I really wouldn’t be interested. For me, the ICRBE is about the rod building craft, not how much money I can put in my pocket.

And if that’s not enough for some, then I would suggest they pony up to the table and host their own rod building event. They can have it anywhere they want - even in their own backyard. Let’s see what they can do and see which they put first, themselves or the custom rod building craft. Sure you can do an event for less, move it around the Country and even make yourself some money, but it won’t be a event like the ICRBE.

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I think the old Dale Clemens seminars were all around $75 and well over $125 or so around the time they quit having them. And that was a few years ago so you would have to adjust for inflation now. They certainly were not as elaborate and did not have the manufacturers and dealers like the ICRBE.

Sure, I wish you had the show next door or just down the road from me but I can understand why you do it where you do it. It is the best rod building event ever held and for the least money of any rod building event going. I really do not see how you do all you do for everyone and only charge $8 a head. Either way I will continue to attend and will continue to take advantage of the knowledge and special product pricing there.

It's also human nature that the more you do for people, the more they will expect you to do for them in the future. Sad but true. We're all guilty of it at some time or another.

Great show. Great time. I've already gotten my room and will be there in February. Looking forward to seeing all the guys again.

I have only one suggestion Tom, to help you save a little money at the reception. Instead of paying all that money for extra chairs, when there aren't enough to go around, have everyone to bring a lawn chair if they wish to sit.

Bill in WV

Bill,

I don't think that they'll let me bring it on the plane! LOL!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Bill,

Only a handful of the attendees came to the reception, but that still amounted to roughly 350 people or so.

It was never my intention to provide tables and chairs for everyone. I will typically have about 35 to 40 chairs in place for those who are elderly or infirm. Last year, somebody got the idea that everybody was supposed to have a seat and asked for more chairs. The food is a meal, sort of, but not really. It's really meant more as a time to stand and socialize while you enjoy some "snacks" and drink a beer or softdrink or two.

It was my fault for not making that plain. We just had such a great turnout that there were a lot of other things for me to do at that time. I wasn't able to monitor the seating situation.

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The Somebody "Chair Villian" was ME! TK threateded to file a lien against my bank account for the additional charges for the chairs (which by the way appeared almost instantaneously) - the pretty lady in charge for the Show Place overheard his threat and whispered some nice words in my ear! The real problem was that there was so much food available that the beverage and plate required two hands to survive unless a lap was available. I personally think the chair episode is very similar to letters received by one seminar presenter from the EPA at a previous show! Even with the additional chairs 75% of the crowd was standing, gabbing and smiling!

Something came to my attention today that for me is almost unthinkable. Tom, you ask who else pays their seminar presenters? I guess no one. In fact there is a little club getting ready to have their yearly meeting and not only do they NOT pay their seminar presenters, they actually CHARGE them to attend and present their seminars. How is that for a "thank you very much!" That sort of thing explains a good deal to me about them and what they are all about.

Tom,

I digress, I didn't know about the Bill Stevens situation (Thanks for enlightening me Bill). The above post was made in jest, and not to be taken literally. I just knew it cost you extra for those additional chairs that were brought out. At least Mike thought it funny. I'll go away now!!

Bill in WV

Bill,

Not a problem. In fact, Bill Stevens and I have had some back and forth jousting on this. I got him, he got me. We had fun. The Showplace was good enough to let the charges on the extra chairs go. I thought that was pretty decent of them.

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Richard,

I really don't know what other people or groups do and really don't care. I value my seminar presenters and pay them what I can. I wish I could pay them even more. Perhaps this year I can.

I cannot fathom ever charging any of them an admission fee. They're doing me and everyone who attends a great service.

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