I tend to side with Ray, Bill, and Grant. The hole idea that you can not build a fishing rod and say it is a custom rod mainly because you did not have a particular customer or put his feedback into consideration is not true. I have built a couple rods for people that put their input into the rod being built. I knew that their rod would end up not to be what they expected or wanted and I was right, so now I never put customers ideas, designs ahead of the what I know will please them, thread colors yes, design never again. I think the hole subject could be put to rest by saying Custom built for John Doe and if he put put input into it, under that it could say (Just how he wanted it.) And for everyone who admits they are still learning, such as with handle ergonomics and so on, maybe a true custom rod should have a sticker stating Custom Rod built for John Doe to the best of my knowledge at the time it was built. I think the hole statement that a rod should not be called custom unless it is built for a particular person is ludicrous and has been beat to death on this forum more times than I can remember. I think that a custom rod should accomplish many different fishing techniques with the same rod, that is custom to me, not having to have a different rod for every technique, the more a rod can do and do well beats any rod that is just meant for on technique, or a rod supposedly built for one person with the knowledge skill of the builder at the time it was built. that is my thought on custom, and just a thought that I am not going to try and push on anybody. I hope know one is offended by my post but the hole idea of Custom is not up to anyones interpretation except the person selling the rod, my thoughts. Have a great day, Rich.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2007 12:52PM by Rich Gassman.

I believe that Ray's description is right on. Think of a couple of scenarios.

You go to a car dealer and say that you want an Impala, red, tan seats, cd changer, keyless entry, satalite navigation. and aluminum wheels. Lot's of customer input, Is it a customized car? No, you just took advantages of available options.

A gentelman comes to you and say's he just bought a boat and wants a rod to fish for grouper. You start questioning him about components, and he tells you that he doesn't know blanks, guides, seats, grips, from horseshoes. He wants you to use your expertise. You do just that, and that is definately a custom rod, and his input was that he wants to go fishing.

How about a signature or label stating custom designed for Bob Balcombe. That is if Bob helped in the selection of materials used. An was there for fittings of the grips and reel seats. I got one for you! I have special prosthetic shoes. Are these shoes custom made for me , or are they shoes with a special design and purpose. I believe in shoes when ever thing is designed from the ground up for a customer it is custom. Just adding fuel to the fire. How about rods that are made by a custom rod builder with only one purpose in mind. No customer evolvement, in that case would they be considered a speciality rod
Good Wraps Bob

I would say that if designed specifically for you, they are custom. I would also say that if designed for a specific condition and only size is the option, they are still custom.

Sorry to be late to the discussion. This is an interesting topic.

I also build custom rods for specific clients to meet their fishing needs and physical requirements. Truly custom rods with a good deal of client input and specification. I tend to agree that I need the client and the client input to really build a custom rod.

However....

I also build custom rods (one of a kind) for specific fishing situations with carefully selected components, feather inlays, thread work, etc. and keep these in a rack awaiting the appearance of the specific client for which they were created. I don''t know who that is, but he or she is out there somewhere and simply hasn't discovered this treasure yet. When they do, I can add their name and any other personalized data requested.

I also build rods to sell to the public which are better than store bought rods, but not custom. They have some of the same special features as the custom rods, but they are more generic. These can also be personalized.

I also build the occasional experiment. I have one on the bench now that is a crappie rod which I will soon have to take out for the purpose of conducting some field research. If it works as I think it will, I may have another generic/special, better than store bought, but not really custom, rod to offer the public. These can also be personalized.

Joe

Joe Douglas

The term "custom rod" is obviously wide open to interpretation. I would never intend to limit anyone's right to apply whatever criteria they choose to meet their standards for what a "custom rod" is for them. There is, however, good reason to appreciate the many degrees of effort, expertise, attention to detail, workmanship and the input of the client that may, or may not, be incorporated in a build. If anyone has any difficulty understanding what I mean when I say "custom rod" I simply show them a copy of RodMaker Magazine or direct them to the Photo Pages on RBO. If a rod does not seem out of place on these venues I'd be inclined to consider it a custom rod.
Dave

Guess there will be as many interpretations of 'custom' as there are builders. I'll be a bit generic. If it is somehow different than the mass produced, whether by your own expertise/choices or built to a customer's reqs, then I'd call it custom. Handcrafted? Custom? One off? Synonyms for many folks in popular usage.

As Dave said, it's a matter of semantics. I have my own views on what is and isn't a custom rod, but to carve it down to bare bones, I have two standard labels. One is "Custom Built for XXXXX by Me with logo". The other is blank. Something for a raffle or donation does not get my name on it. If anybody, be it recipient or people giving a gift to the recipient, had any input, I'll put the info on, space, aesthetics, and my own decision providing.

Kinda vague and doesn't mean a hill of beans in the grand scheme, but it is important to me how I label a rod. Yeah, they know who did the work and will tell everyone who did the work, whether or not my name is on it. Just something I do depending on rod.

How about designed by ^&*^%( for( (&(5 and do not foreget the date and year. In most cases the builder designes a rod for a certin type of fishing. Remember the blank its self does not recnize the type of fish it well be used for. untile it is finished.
Just another thought.
Good Wraps bob

Jay Hunt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pick up a Falcon, G Loomis, St Croix at any good
> sporting goods store. They are excellent quality ,
> hand crafted rods. Not Custom Built.

I'm not agree with you, Jay. IMHO, no one factory made rod can be close in terms of quality to an individually built one. At factories, they never pay (and will never pay) so much attention to the process just because they can't spend as much time building 1 rod as an individual can do.




Pavel,
Moscow, RU



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2007 07:05AM by Pavel Novolokin.

I have 25 rods sitting ready to be built today for a customer. They are to be done to my customers specifications using components my customer picked out. Does that make them custom? My customer just happens to be Lamiglas and these custom rods will be available in stores all over the country.

My previous post was in no way trying to say what people should call their rods! That's a personal opinion as was my post. I really think that what needs to be faced is the fact that ALL custom rods are by no means HIGH quality just as all production rods are NOT LOW quality!! I'm sure that many, if not most, of us have seen Custom rods being sold that we would consider anything but high quality or even the equal of any decent factory rod. I have seen racks of identical Custom rods being sold at fishing show rhat have inexpensive blanks, cheap preformed grips, Aluminum Oxide guides (not that there's anything wrong with AO) and generic standard guide spacing., selling for a couple hundred bucks. Are they "custom"? IMO, no, but to other, yes..
There are others like Thomas Thornhill who "outwrap" for factories for a living and, no doubt, take as much pride in their workmanship as any of us. The same as many of the worker's IN the factories do. Anyone that thinks ALL custom rods are superior quality is either naive or an elitest!! Overall, the majority of rods are good quality, can you find some that aren't? Of course you can, in both factory AND custom!!

Just MY opinion and not necessarily worth anything.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2007 12:40PM by Mike Barkley.

I'm with the guys or gals that say a custom rod does not have to be specifically built for an individual to be considered custom. I put a lot of time and effort into the rods that I build but they are not all built for a particular person altho they may well be built to use a certain weight reel and be determined to be a six weight rod instead of the 5 weight rod as purchased. where is the line drawn to determine custom or not. I think my rods are given a lot more thought and time than a rod that is bought off the shelf. I have sold rods that were not built for a person's particular description as to what they were looking for but when told what went into building the rod they tell me this is just what they want. So I agree with those that say that the rod doesn't have to be built for a particular person to be a custom rod. If that in fact is the case, then I have been misleading people for the last couple of years that I have been building rods for sale. What happens on the Rod Builders International site that I am a member of, I stated that I was a custom rod builder. Did I in fact dupe some people, because that was not my intent. I think custom rods are custom rods if that is what the customer wants even thou it may not have been specifically built for them

thats my 2 cents worth, for what its worth.

James Smith
Jsmithcustomtackle

Thomas is one of the finest out wrappers I know, he also builds fine rods for himself. All manufactured rods are hand wrapped eather at at factoru or at home. These rods already have the grips and reel seats installed, .. The blanks are marked where the guides are to be placed. So the out wrapper does not have to do any measureing. This way all factory rods look the same.
Good Wraps Bob

I always wonder who these guys were selling rods on @#$%& and from some of the responses I now know. Understanding that this is completely my opinion, but anyone who sells a premade rod on @#$%& and markets it as “custom” is just lessening the character of our craft. Take a look at the prices these rods finally sell for. There’s no way that they can be made with good components and good craftsmanship and be sold for such a low amount of money. Why would anyone sell items for a loss?

It hurts every reputable custom builder. Don’t believe me? Think about it next time you have to spend an hour trying to explain to a possible customer why your rods cost 250.00 compared to the 105.00 “customs” on @#$%&.

I have put several of my ( custom ) rods on @#$%&. But the prices I was offered, I would rather run over it with a truck then sell !!!!!

I have sold a few used (tested) Custom Rods on @#$%&, my thought was make a few rods and just break even in order to get known about and get some good reviews. Then later put a reserved starting price at what you know the the rods are worth and one that you could make a profit, I still made a profit on the first sacrifice rods but it would have been about a nickle an hour. The problem I ran into was one person purchased every rod I built. He gave me good reviews but the way he worded the reviews he pretty much was trying to limit what my rods were worth, by that I mean one review went something like this. (A+++++++ craftsmanship and detail, worth the selling price). I was a little ticked off, I thought to myself worth three times at least the price he paid. When the man finally went out and fished the rods he was overwhelmingly happy with them and emailed me wanting another rod pretty much price no object and would pay in advance. I have never built him another rod since and probably will not.The point I am trying to make is what better way to sell something that is not mass produced than to have people who really want a item that is limited in the number built to be bid on by people who can afford it and want it the most. I think there are some great deals on @#$%& only because it is tough to get honest reviews to make a persons craftsmanship bring what is worth on @#$%& in the future. I have found a new outlet for getting absolute top dollar out of my fishing rods, if I ever have the time to make more rods, put them where people have a love of fishing that are retired and did well, I found they will pay for quality because they can afford it and can see firsthand what they are buying, also they can buy it right then and there. I am going to put a couple more what I consider very nice Custom Rods on @#$%& in the future and block the person who buys up my rods, I am going to put a very high reserved bid and realize they will not sell, it is just fun to watch the page hit counts. There are ways to get the right reviews on @#$%& that would not limit what your craftsmanship is worth, but they are not legal according to @#$%&, not that I think that mattered to some people I have noticed on @#$%&, what they do to make a buck is not my concern. Just my thoughts, have a great day, Rich.

When you sell a rod "Cheap" on @#$%&, you're not establishing yourself. What you are actually doing is setting a "Value" for your rods. If you sell some rods on @#$%& for $100 What you do is set the value of your rods at $100. and it's going to be pretty hard to convince those people that all of a sudden those rods are worth 2 or 3 hundred.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!