I am new to rod building. I want to use quality products and make nice rods, but am not apposed to a "good deal" if it will still produce quality. I am using seeker blanks, and fuji guides, rod bond U-40, Thread master, and gudderbrod thread. Here is the question...

I was surfing te internet @#$%& sight and I sea Madierra thread for sale and it is listed as rod building supplies..... the colors are great and the price is pretty good as well, so I ordered them. The thread does not really list a size A or D like the others. IS this really a rod building thread or did I just buy some cool colored thread to sew with?

On the same @#$%& site I am seeing a epoxy for sale. The listing claims that it has been sold to rod builders since 1974, and it has a 40 minute working time. IT is called Aeromarine 30, or Aeromarine 11 for the resin and hardener respectively. Is this an epoxy that any of you have used? Is it good?

Thanks,
John

These products are not made specifically for custom rod building. But that doesn't mean that they won't work. Many such products can be used and in some cases have been adapted and accepted for use in rod building.

You can get a lot more information on Maderia thread by trying "maderia" in the search feature of this site. It can and is used for rod building, although it is indeed a sewing thread.

I'm not familiar with that exact epoxy. I suspect it would probably be fine for rod building as long as it's not a paste type. You don't really want a heavy, thick paste type epoxy for what we normally do in rod building.

............

Maderia Thread IS used in rod building Because of the great Color selection. You MUST use color Protector over this thread,it has a coating that will effect your finish. as far as Epoxy goes I use Kar-Dol for reel seats and gimbels also setting Foam grip[s. For wrap finish I would stay in the known rod building Finishes

Madeira Polyneon 40 is what you want It is just slightly smaller than A thread. Most, including me) use CP with it but there are some that use it without CP for tartan wraps with no problems. Test it on some scrap. When you say epoxy, are you talking about finish or adhesive??? I've been building a long time and I have never heard of that epoxy. Keep in mind that @#$%& sites can be risky and if things go bad, you're on your own. It's just an opinion, but I would think that any product that has been sold to rodbuilders for 30 years would be available from some of the sonsors to the left. @#$%& and Mudhole both carry Madeira thread and to honest, if that epoxy was $1 a quart, I still wouldn't choose it over Threadmaster.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> These products are not made specifically for
> custom rod building. But that doesn't mean that
> they won't work. Many such products can be used
> and in some cases have been adapted and accepted
> for use in rod building.
>
> You can get a lot more information on Maderia
> thread by trying "maderia" in the search feature
> of this site. It can and is used for rod
> building, although it is indeed a sewing thread.
>
> I'm not familiar with that exact epoxy. I suspect
> it would probably be fine for rod building as long
> as it's not a paste type. You don't really want a
> heavy, thick paste type epoxy for what we normally
> do in rod building.
>
> ............

It is advertised as a liquid 1 to 1 mix ratio, with a 40 minute working time. You get 1 quart of resin and 1 quart of hardener for $35.00 shiping included. That would make 1/2 gallon of epoxy. Thread master was about $25.00 for 8 oz kit, the price is obviously tempting. I will ponder this one for a while... but it is good to know tha tthe thread will work since I already bought it.


Thank you all for the responses!!

given the amounts of epoxy used at any given time - I would stick with the threadmaster and know that what I'm using is quality.

being a recreational rod builder, 25 bucks for an 8 oz kit isnt bad

it would take me forever to go through half gallon of epoxy - if you are a commercial builder, it might be worth looking into, or it might not?

for clarification - epoxy to me is adhesive.

when it comes to finish, i like threadmaster so far - I plan on trying the TM lite soon

i would suggest sticking with something that's commonly used by other rodbuilders. if something should go wrong in its use, you would have a large group of previous users to turn to for troublshooting. if you chose products form the sponsor list here you'd be supporting this community which you might end up turning to for help in the future.

eric
fresno, ca.

I wouldn't be tempted no matter what the price. It won't be a good deal if your rods turn yellow in a few months or the finish cracks. Finish is one thing that it just isn't worth being a guinea pig for, IMO. I like to save a buck as well as anyone but the cost of the finish used on a rod is small enough that, for me, it just isn't worth the risk.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Mike nailed it!

DR

Can't really improve on Mike's words. Thread finish is actually quite inexpensive when you figure out how much you actually use per rod. If, as you say, you want to use quality products, then use quality products. Cheap stuff is usually cheap for a reason.

If it's the stuff they're selling on @#$%&, It's a 2 part marine epoxy for coating boat hulls. They also have the Max Seal that Ken Preston and a few others are experimenting with to refinish / recolor rods.

Bill in WV

It is a marine epoxy and yes it has been used on rods way back when I started to build. However at that time we did not have the quality rod finishes of today. It will turn yellow in time, I have still used a little of it for marbleing and using a dark color to cover the yellowing. As a new rod builder that wants to use quality product I would stick to the new products.

Your original post said your were using Seeker blanks. Are these heavy offshore or standups? If so, wrap guides with Gudebrod Nylon, more than one layer, and finish with a conventional proven rod finish. Most of your cash will still be in your pocket and the rods will last a lot longer. Save your money by purchasing generic medication for your rodbuilding mental conditions!

I am making heavier offshore, stand-up type rods to start with. I have just completed my first rod. It is a Seeker 670, I used an aluminum Aftco reel seat, aluminum gimbal butt, Fuji hardloy boat guides ( 8 + tip), and EVA grips. I have a trip next December on the American Angler and I want to have several of my own done for that trip. I also fish offshore here in Oregon and I would like to try a few out in July August, and Sept around here on Albacore.

On this rod I did a wrap under the guides, and a double over. After Three coats of threadmaster it wasn't perfect, so I sanded it and applied the final coat and it looks great! I did not apply epoxy between each layer of thread. The books I have were not specific, but the picture does not show the underwrap epoxied, so I didn't. I found applying the epoxy around and under the guides was very tough, so I will probably epoxy between thread coats this next time.

You say if I am doing heavy rods I should use gudderbrod and not the madierra polyneon?

I will stick to the known epoxies......what about less expensive guides? Batson? Fuji hardloy (BLRLG) is about $40.00 a set with tip. Is there a place where I can get thread weave (fish) to put in my rods that I don't have to weave myself? I do not want to use stickers, but if I could do and underwrap and lay a thread graffic that would be cool? I will try my own weaves when I get better.

I have a Seeker 6470 that I am starting now and I have not put the underwraps on yet, so any guidance on thread or whatever before I start is appreciated!! Keep it coming guys.

Thanks!!
John

Don't get locked into a specific brand of components, you will be shortchanging yourself. American Tackle, PacBay and Batson all have excellant products and I wouldn't hestate to use any of them.

I have never heard of "pre woven" weaves and not sure how that would even be possible.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I wasn't sure if there was such a thing as a pre-woven weave.... I was hopefull. I have seen rods with all kinds of cool stuff putinto the finish. I recently saw some feathers layed into the finish. I thought a weave would be similar to lay in the finish.

A weave applique could be done I suppose but the finished outcome would be
less than desireable most likely. Also, the set-up cost at an embroydery shop
probably be more that what I weaver would charge you to do it right anyway.

Besides, it's CHEATTING!! LOL!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

OK I wont be a cheater.... I will wait until I can weave it myself......

No recommendations on thread and epoxy between coats?

Thread choice is the easy part. Buy all you can from where ever you can and
test wrap everything if you have any doubts about how it will look or work for
for application. Some people say to stay away from this thread or that thread
for what ever reason but thread is very inexpensive for the most part and CP
and finish also does not cost an arm or a leg. So, time spent making a few test
wraps will let YOU know without a doubt if it will work for the appication you entend
or not.

Epoxy appied between thread layers has it's purpose at times but NOT always
nessisary. It will make it easier to wrap the next layer over a smooth surface or,
in the case of the "Tiger Wrap" enhance curtain effects one might be trying to achieve.
Generaly however, it's purpose is to protect the exposed thread from the elements
and physical abrasion.

My advise is to shy away from Rayon thread. Polyesters are fine as well as silk and cotton.
However, like I said before, try anything by test wrapping first and you wont have any
surprises.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

On the subject of "cheating".

I am a thread artist so I suppose that makes me bias against anything that appears
like a crosswrap, weave, or thread technique that really is not. However, if anyone can
get the look or effect they want by "cheating" more power to them!

Times are a changing and new technologies are appearing all the time. I hope thread art
does NOT go by the wayside but who knows? I just know I love it!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..