First post, GREAT Board.

I have gotten several requests to build a 3+ piece fly rod that is 2-5wt and 6 foot or less for fishing very small (<10ft wide) trout streams. They also want the rod to be moderate to full flexing and load well at short (<15 ft distances).

Too my knowledge, such blanks do not exist. Creating a graphite blank with these characteristics hs to be very difficult.

To solve this problem, has anyone experimented with taking a 4 to 7 piece blanks and building a rod without the last 1 to 3 butt sections?

I realize that this would invalidate any warranty..................

You would certainly wind up with a very slow action rod if you did that. Of course, that may be just what you want.

How well the rod would load with the line used at shorter distances would be a matter of power versus the line weight and angler input. I'd run the CCS measurement to find out exactly what AA and ERN I'd be working with.

What line weight does the user wish to use?


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Generally, they want 2 to 4 wt rods. It would be preferable to have something that is a slower action. The overiding concernes with these rods is ease of transport both with the rod packed and when assembled through a very brushy environment and having a rod that does very short forward, roll, and "flip" cast with 3 to10ft of fly line out. I realize that such a rod won't have much "left in the tank" for longer casts.

My fear is that by ahortening the rod i will make the ERN rating increase and end up turning a 4 wt blank into a 6 wt blank....but I won't know until a try.

I also may "modify" the ERN system a bit to account for the fact 20 ft casts will be long casts and that there will almost never be a situation where the 30ft of line that forms the current standard will be out.

Also, I have never done static loading to determine guide spacing....is there a reference for this? I'd obviously have to do this.

If you are looking for short fly rod blanks, try:

www.dorber.com/.

They make mulit-piece blanks starting at 4' 6" on up.

Good wraps,

Tim

No, shortening by leaving off the butt section will leave the rod less powerful, not more so. Also, keep in mind that there is no such thing as a "true" 4-weight nor 6-weight rod. These are just subjective ratings by the manufacturer.

You do not have to modify the CCS system in any way. It already accounts for length of cast. Have you read the instructions? You wouldn't want to modify a ruler or tape measure because you're measuring something made of wood versus something made of plastic. You just need to learn how to interpret the ERN.

If your customers want to make short casts with say, a 4-weight line, then you want an ERN of about 2.5 to 3.5.

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Look at the Dan Craft blanks on CCS posted by Steve Kartalia. They will tell you what you can expect as he has made measurements on multiple piece blanks with different configurations.

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"

Batson has 5' 2-4 wt blanks, however they are only 2 piece blanks - but, each piece is only 2 1/2 feet long.... Very nice however. I'm getting ready to build on one for a customer for that exact same purpose - short casts in brushy streams.

William, as Stan suggests you might look at Dan Craft's FTL 803-5 and 803-6 and 904-6 with some sections dropped to build excellent quality and very packable short rods. I agree with Tom on the approximate ERN range you want to find to fish a 4wt. line at short range. A less expensive blank option in that length and ERN range would be the Forecast F764-5 or F764-4 with a section dropped. The Forecast F662-4 makes a nice close range rod too but slightly longer than you were asking about.

Thanks, Steve, Tom, and all.

Love that CCS data, gives me reassurance that the removing the butt will do what I want to do......lower the line weight rating for the rod and slowing the action.

Tom, I guess I just mispoke.....wasn't looking to change CCS just using it like you described..... for example, a rod would be designed to cast 80 grains of line whether it be 30 ft of 2 wt or 20 ft of 4 wt line.

I'm actually thinking of using the 7'0" 4pc 3/4 wt and 4/5wt 4pc tiger eye blanks to give me a 5' 3" hopefully 2/3 wt and 3/4wt models.....

Those dorber blanks look interesting, though they might be stiff judging by the taper.

I'll build up some rods and post the results on the CCS site.

Thanks.

Glad to help. I forgot to mention the tiger eye 4pc. rods. Those sound like other real good options for these projects. I haven't tested those exact models but my best guess is that they would be in the ballpark you are hoping for based on other Tiger eye 4pc. rods I've built. Have fun and I'll look forward to seeing your CCS data and maybe some pictures

i think maybe graphite is a poor choice for such a rod. when you get that short it may be hard to find graphite with a full flexing action. glass may be a better material. i think some folks over on the fiberglass flyr rodders board have been building what you want from forcast glass spin blanks. i can't tell you which specific blank but a fellow who goes by the name of "loudog" has been building them. here is the link to the website.

[p097.ezboard.com]. go over there and go to the rodbuildering section and ask.

Larry, I totally agree. The rods I use for this are fiberglass (i have a diamondglass 2wt and lamiglas 4wt), but they want graphite because they feel glass is too heavy and slow.....

BTW I belong to that board, too.

You can also look at ultralight spinning blanks with full-flex configurations. I've built a couple 5' and 6' 'brush rods' and they work great.

Scott Kinney
The Longest Cast Fly Rods
[www.thelongestcast.com]

You should speak with Dan Craft before making your choice. He has several multi-piece blanks that we discussed dropping 1 or 2 of the 5 sections to get the desired length and line rating for a customer..

He's definitely solved this problem for other builders so I would encourage you to chat with him. The FTL 5-piece blanks would be very much suited to this task.

Terry

Graphite will do anything glass will do. Action and power are independent of the materia used to build the rodl. You just have to choose the proper characteristics for what you want to do.

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I built a lot of these back in the early 80's when I lived in the western NC mountains. In fact we called them NC Mountain Rods. They were built as two-piece sticks on Fenwick Fenglas blanks. They were from 2wt to 4wt, and were intended for running up the streams in the Nantahala range and the North Georgia mountains after the native brookies. The idea was to be able to go through the laural thickets without breaking the rods. A 5ft to 6ft rod would break down into 2.5' - 3' and was just about right for the purpose. In fact some of the guys would use those little rod clips, or rubber bands, to stick the two pieces together while they were going from one pool to another.

The actions were indeed relatively slow. That was OK because these were not intended for long casts - 30' was maximum, with most streams going 10' or 15' across. Most times you could not cast overhead because of the overhanging cover, so sidearm casts became an art form. A lot of times you had to flip the fly under a bank or under a low limb to get to the spot or the drift. Upstream was often not an option - across or slightly downstream was more the method, with aome judicious mending usually required. Leaders rarely ran more than 6'.

Now, the folks above are all pretty much right in both directions. The graphite blanks of today will do the job in the slower actions, but I think I'd go with a glass stick because the actions are still more suited to what you're trying to do, in my opinion. Your layup will be the key to maximizing the action for the application. What you'll find is that the casting motion has to be slowed down a little - you'll cast the rod, more than the line. Remember, double hauling and a lot of false casting are not the rule in this case - there's no room, for one thing, and too much stuff going on overhead will put the fish down in these little streams.

Good luck with this. They are fun rods to build and even more fun to fish.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

SEVIER MFG. on the list to the left carries a 6 foot 2/3 wt blank,,, I sold a ton of them,,, folks are very pleased.

As already mentioned, talk to Dan Craft. I built a blank and did exactly what you are asking. I forget the model number, but it was a blank that was close to 8', 0-1weight, 5 piece. He sold me an extra 4th piece, and I made that into a handle. Now I have a 1wt that I can use on tiny streams here in Japan for rather small trout, or I can use it in its full length for some of the wider stocked streams where I need a bit more distance. The tiny rod is amazing, blast with smaller fish and I can cast amazingly heavy flies with it.

Fiberglass is definitely more durable, too. There are several lamiglas options that would work and Steffen could definitely roll something up that would work.

But I have a lot of requests for the Tiger Eye's and you can't argue with the price for this experiement. I'm building these rods for charity @#$%& so cost is an issue. Not necessarily the rod I would build for myself, but the one that will get the most money per money and time invested raised.

I'll definitely give Dan Craft a call. If not this run of rods, definitely the next.

What have you guys used as reel seats for these rods? There's the whole lightweight sliding band arguement vs. a possibly more sturdy standard uplocking seat......

i like downlocking cap and ring reel seats for my 7' through 8' fly rods for small streams. i can tell you about seats which look nice and work very well for around $10 each if you contact me through email.

eric
fresno, ca.