Not sure why Im ranting on, cuz its not my style, but man does it bug me when I need to order 20 or 30 cork rings and I get hit with a shipping charge of $8.95! Last time i recieved a package its actucal cost was less than $4.00. I know its not just rod building componants, and I can totally understand high shipping charges when it comes to blanks, but why is it so that companies charge so much for shipping? It doesnt seen right to make a profit off of shipping when they are already making a profit on the products. Are they making a profit off of shipping or is it just an upcharge to help cover hidden charges that out sponsers/suppliers get hit with? Anyways, just ranting on here and was wondering if im missing something here?

Thanks

Rant over!

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information,which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
- Herbert Spencer



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2007 06:00PM by Danny Ross.

Danny try to feel good about it!!!!!!
It costs me $25 US to get a set of guides and few other things posted
A few blanks - start at $70 US for freight

THEN
take the currency conversion into account and it becomes $32 and $90 for me (AUD).

THEN
Some suppliers (sponsors of this site) take 4 weeks to send a shipment off (not to arrive - to get it in the mail). One in particular is losing the small trade it gets from me for repeated dissappointments

Feel good Danny

Your "rant" has merit...........................I needed some repair parts. The cost was $2.85....................SHIPPING!!!!!!!!!! $8.95........and then there was the "PACKAGING" cost $3.75. (the items was sent in a regular brown manila clasp envelope. USPS would have shipped for $1.35 or $1.45 according to them. Maybe the vendors on the left ship at THIER most convient option, NOT necessarily the cheapest......

Danny,

You're wrong. Shipping is more than postage. Boxes are not free, nor is the labor required to pick, pack and then ship your order. At $8.95, the company may very well have lost money on the sale.

For many companies, postage or shipping fees are the least of what it costs them to ship things. My postage charges only constitute about 1/3rd of what it actually costs me to mail or ship the magazine.

................



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2007 06:33PM by Tom Kirkman.

One reason I deal with companies like Acid Rod. My last priority shipped order was about $8 and I live in the North West Territories. There are other companies on the left that do not gouge for shipping, but I know there are those companies out there that will only ship via courier or have their shipping charges quite alot higher than what it actually cost to ship the item and I will not deal with them. Granted I know companies have to make a buck but doubling or trippling the actual cost is out of line. What you have to remember is it costs money to have someone pack the order and it also costs $$$ for the packaging materials so I give alowances for that.
My .02

Regards
Dave

Fishing is Life the rest is just Details

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Danny,
>
> You're wrong. Shipping is more than postage.
> Boxes are not free, nor is the labor required to
> pick, pack and then ship your order. At $8.95,
> the company may very well have lost money on the
> sale.
>
> For many companies, postage or shipping fees are
> the least of what it costs them to ship things.
> My postage charges only constitute about 1/3rd of
> what it actually costs me to mail or ship the
> magazine.
>
> ................
>
Sorry I dont buy it Tom. I believe its another avenue for profit. Some companies that I deal with are very good about charging accurate charges and most arent. Those I have been slowly weeding out because its money out of my pocket. I had one company that I bought from that I thanked for the low shipping charge on the same item I bought from someone else. They asked what that charge was, and then I'll be danged if they didn't start charging close to what the other company charged. Is this specific to the trade? Absolutly NOT. Its just the way of most businesses in general.
>
>
>




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2007 07:03PM by Scott Kleppe.

I'm in business and have been in business for some time and know what is required, costwise, to ship items. I only wish that postage constituted the bulk of my shipping costs. But it doesn't. Not even close. It's far more than the average consumer thinks it is precisely because the average consumer rarely stops to consider (or even knows about) all the associated costs of doing business.

A few of the larger mail order companies will average their shipping charges - setting a straight fee for various purchase amounts. They lose a little here, and make a little there. But in the end, things tend to average out for them. At least that's what they hope.

Humor me for a moment - I wonder how many rod builders, who ship rods to customers, only charge for the actual postage. Do you charge for the tube you ship the rod in? Add anything for the 20 minutes you spend packing the rod in the tube or hauling it to the post office or UPS station? Now if you don't, then you might not do very well in a larger business where such things would seriously affect your bottom line at some point. And if you do charge for these things, does that mean you're gouging your customers by charging them more than the actual postage or shipping charge? Suppose you were shipping a lot of rods and had to buy a lot of tubes, boxes, packaging supplies or spend a couple hours each day packing and getting stuff to the shipper. Could your present margin on custom rods cover all this? Would you have to raise your prices? Would you increase the shipping charge?

Not trying to be argumentative at all, but really wondering how those of you who sell and have to ship custom rods handle this sort of thing and how would handle it if you had ship a lot of rods and spend a good deal of money and time on the actual shipping process, above and beyond the cost of postage.


...........

Something that has always bothered me. Why is there a difference?
If I order online, I'm expected to pay the cost of picking my order as part of the shippng charge. Packaging material costs starts, lets say at a buck.
If I shop in person, the counter persons time is free.

This has been one thing that has always bothered me about buying rod building parts and supplies. The US postal Service charges a surcharge for rod blanks over 84". This I can understand. But alot of blanks are under this limit and can go at the regular Priority Mail rate with no surcharge, which is not that bad.
A lot of the supplies we buy as rod builders are small and light weight in nature. You do not hit the Priority rate until you get over 13 oz. You can get quite a few guide set, grips etc. and still be under that limit. This 13 oz and under is First Class shipping and travels the same way Priority Mail does.
The Postal Service will even supply Priority Mail Boxes for FREE!!!! Just ask for them. Granted the boxes are small and limited, but plenty large enough for the kind of items we need the most.
I can agree with adding alittle extra for rod tubes, which are really not that expensive when you concider buy a large volume as a dealer.
Lastly, I have not been to any retailers that added a charge to my purchase because the cashier had to handle my payment.

Henry

Ross,

If you shop in person, the counter person doesn't have to pack and ship your order.

........

Henry,

Of course they do add a charge for the cashier to take your money, they just build it into the price of the goods you're buying. In the rod building world these days, margins are often so tiny there isn't much left to charge off to shipping costs.


.............

I would like to hear how custom builders finance their purchase of shipping tubes and factor in their time in packaging and getting stuff to the post office or other shipping company. And if they don't, how would this affect them if they had to do much of it. Could your current rod building price margin allow you to provide tubes, packaging materials and time to ship for free?

Again, not trying to argue, just wondering how many of the builders who are in the business of selling rods via mail order handle this. Or have they not considered it. I would guess that every time you ship a rod, your cost over and above the actual postage or freight cost is going to be at least from $5 to $15, and that's if you don't count your time.

...........



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2007 08:13PM by Tom Kirkman.

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I would like to hear how custom builders finance
> their purchase of shipping tubes and factor in
> their time in packaging and getting stuff to the
> post office or other shipping company. And if
> they don't, how would this affect them if they had
> to do much of it. Could your current rod building
> price margin allow you to provide tubes, packaging
> materials and time to ship for free?


I charge $20 to ship a rod. That covers Priority Mail, Insurance and a touch more for vehicle expense to take it there. The tubing I recycle from inbound blank orders, but I am not unconscious of the potential expense if I didn't have enough "free" tubing to utilize. The cost of 10' of Sch40 PVC and two plastic end caps, with tax, is almost $9.00.

I don't have a problem paying most "shipping and handling" charges. I figure I saved a ton by ordering from my desk ... gas, time, etc. If you aren't paying it as a line item, it is most likely buried in the price ... if it isn't, that is even worse - your vendor isn't going to be around to service you for much longer.

There ... my 42.5 cents applied to the forum for today. LOL

Ross / Henry,

Try tracking your USPS shipment. Can you? Is your priority mail shipment insured against loss or damage? Try to collect. Have you recently purchased a bubble wrap mailer, carton, tube, tape and paper or plastic dunnage? I really think that you would be shocked by the actual cost. The vendor carries the loss/damage risk, purchases packings supplies, supplies the pack/ship labor, drops off at the post office, schedules UPS or Fed Ex pick ups, invoices your shipment , answers all of your when, where, how, why shipping/delivery questions. I really think that you would be shocked at the actual cost to a vendor to properly service a customer from point of sale to delivery

Oh and by the way, strap in for the impending May 14 USPS price increases and changes in their price structure. Be prepared for the new and improved USPS Shape Based Pricing coming your way May 14!,

Tom, what I'm saying is (for example} . If I go into a flyshop to buy a reel. the counter person will answer all my questions, & whatnot to make a sale. That would also go for hooks,& other cheap items. Would that not take a lot more time, than packing my order? In my youth, I worked as a shipper receiver for many years. I Know how long it takes,
Ross

Wow, I guess I opened up a can of worms with what I thought was a legit question...Tom, I disagree with ya, how could I be wrong, when I asked a question? I can understand the packing materials charge, and so forth, but I guarenntee that when my cork rings come shipped to me in a padded envelope, that cost about $1.60 retail, and the shipping is less than $2.00, it would be clear to me that the retailer made about 5 bucks, which I really dont care about, by the way. I was just venting about something that ticks me off sometimes, but it is what it is, ya know? By the way the retailer that I used is GREAT, and Im glad they are a sponser. Like I said it just ticks me off sometimes, but it is the cost of doing business.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information,which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
- Herbert Spencer

I am desperae and need something shipped out today - Please! I forgot to order it last week and need a couple of (blank) - I ordered the wrong part number and need to get it straight to finish the rod I have on the bench - I need a purple one to match the pink one you shipped yesterday - Can you possibly get this out today I know it is ten till five but since I am a good customer I am sure you will not mind - Can you drop it off at Fed Ex on the way home tonight? Are you going to match the price of (U No Who), If I buy 20 will you give me the same discount as if I bought 100? Can you extend my payment terms for twenty days? How about holding the check I sent you for two weeks? Can you make a donation to the Daughters of the American Revolution?

I never noticed what the guy charges me for freight - Hmmm another thing to talk to him about on Monday morning!

Not Gon Fishn

Ken

You can Track Items with the USPS, called Delivery Confirmation. $.50 extra on priority Mail. Insurance can also be purchased for additional charge.

The point I was trying to make is that you can buy a couple of sets of high end guides at a cost of $100. and pay $13.00 to have it shipped. If efforts were made in the interest of customer service to ship at the lowest cost,(Some vendors do), rod builders would benefit as well as vendors with repeat order. The number of places you can get rod building items is increasing. Compitition is good. We have some great vendors on this site that have really impressed me with their service. That goes a long way in my book!!!!!!!


This is all kind of a moot point.
Will I contimue to order from catalogs and online.....Yes
Will I continue to pay the shipping charges even when I think some are out of line.........Yes
Will I continue to support the vendors that advertise on this site........Yes

I have been building rods for a long time. Rod building has always been enjoyable for me. Nothing better than to see someone catch fish with equipment you made for them.

Costs have risen on just about everythig we buy. You can not walk out your door at home without spending money!! Such is life!!!!

Have a great weekend guys

Henry

Danny,

You didn't open a can of worms and it's fine to discuss such things here. No problem.

Those cork rings cost that company about $10 to ship to you. Perhaps a tad more. Hopefully they had enough margin in the rings themselves to offset what they lost on the actual shipping charge. Remember, a shipping charge is more than postage or freight, and it's more than the price of a box or tube.

All I'd add is that often when you order things, if you know you're going to be using more of something in the future, order some extras or add something else you know you'll need at some time. That way, you can often get more product riding on the same dime which ultimately reduces your shipping cost per item.

..................

Jim,

You brought up two very, very good points. One of which I hadn't thought of, really. Ordering from your desk you probably saved money due to not having to drive any distance to pick up the order (no sales tax as well I'm guessing) so regardless of the shipping charges you're likely still ahead. Maybe. Good point.

I note what you listed for your shipping expenses on your custom rods. If you had to buy tubes I'd guess you'd need to charge $30 to ship a rod just to break even on the shipping. I'd bet some customers wonder why you charged more than the actual postage or freight charge - all they'll see is the postage sticker on the tube. But these are costs that custom rod builders need to be aware of and try to cover in some manner.

................

For a company to charge actual shipping costs, especially when ordering off the net, they would have to be able to instantly be able to calculate the weight and the shipping cost to all locations. It's easier to charge an average per dollar amount. As mentioned, sometimes they make money on shipping, sometimes they lose. Which means that sometimes we as buyers get a good shipping deal (order something cheap and heavy) and sometimes we bite it (order one guide). Law of averages.

Most of my rods are done for folks out of state however I am low volume, and also use a UPS store that happens to be in a grocery store that I visit every day, so I have the luxury of doing a "dry run" on shipping so that I can charge the exact shipping cost to the nickel, plus any packaging material that I needed to buy such as pvc (if I didn't have a useable tube from a blank that I ordered or bubble wrap that I couldn't re-use). If I couldn't do this, I would definitely use a high end average on everything that I did so that at the end of the year, my shipping costs would hopefully break even.

Shipping costs vary more than you may think. A while back I sent some extra cork sealer to another builder in a box just big enough to hold it. It cost me more to ship that to him than it cost me for the sealer, the shipping, and a load of other supplies that I originally ordered combined. In fact, it cost me more than it cost to ship a 6' rod in PVC to a different state, and that was using the cheapest and slowest way possible. The reason was his location based upon my location, and there is no rhyme or reason to that either among shipping companies.

I'm the first to complain about shipping costs sometimes, but that's how it is. The more you order, the more shipping can torque you, but the more you ship, the more you understand the costs (among actual companies, not @#$%& commandos and bargain basement operations) Yes, you can mail a #5 tip from NY to CA for the price of a stamp, but if you are shipping lots of different stuff, you simply have to average things out otherwise you lose money on time and material. Try mailing a blank to Australia... that'll wake you up in a hurry. If you have time, and a shipper who will humor you, do some research. Take a couple different boxes of different weights in, after throwing some darts at a map and see the differences you'll get. I think you'll be surprised.

Tom,
I do not buy your reasoning. There are many costs to doing business both direct and indirect. There is insurance, taxes, heat, light, promotion, book keeping charges, materials costs, etc. etc. The cost of these plus profit should be covered in the mark up that a distributor charges over his or her material or product costs. To charge the customer anything but the direct cost of shipping, the packaging costs and payment to a common carrier, is deceptive. The so called handling costs are just one of the costs of doing business. The customer should not be charged the cost of running to the post office, or taking a coffee break on the way or going to the bath room later to get rid of the coffee. When a distributor jacks up the HANDLING charges all he or she is doing is adding in hidden costs that are not made clear to the customer or in effect deceptively increasing the price of the product to deceptively increase his or her margin.