Hey guys,

First post!

I got my first taste of rod wrapping last weekend and I'm addicted.

I'd like to make a rod for a family member. He likes to dig grouper off of the bottom on the West Coast of Florida.

He usually loads his 4/0 with 50# mono, locks the drag down with a hammer, and fishes the rod under his arm.

He generally fishes with live bait.

I would like to make the rod fairly inexpensive. I don't want a fancy aluminum seat, removable butt, or any roller guides.

So, with that in mind...any recommendations on a reasonably priced blank?

Durability is the biggest key.

$50-70 shipped would be nice.

Thanks!
SQ

Gatorglass blank, foulproof (wire) guides, hypalon grips and a FUJI DPSM seat would be my recommendations for what you are asking. Not sure if it'll make the &70 shipped mark though.

I'm also interested in this answer, but can go upward in price if need be to a Seeker/Calstar/Lami etc.. Are there blank model numbers you can recommend? Or length, butt diameter, tip dimensions?

Thanks in advance

Whit

Phil,

I am ok with spending more than $70 on the completed rod...just didn't want to spend more than $70 on the blank alone.

Not sure if you misunderstood me or not, but that's what I meant.

Thanks for the info.

Any blank model recommendations?

SQ

Shawn two popular models the Gator Glass T70H 7' rated 20-50 or the Batson E Glass SWB70XH 7' 25-50 coupled with the Pac Bay Twister guides not as well known as other similar models but have handled some very large Tarpon with no problems I personally would opt for an aluminum seat but the Fuji FPSH is popular also.
EVA butt either 12-14 inches if used under the arm with an 8" fore grip.
The gator glass has a spiral or unsamded finish while the batson is gloss your choice if I was you i would check the rod length he prefers as many prefer 8'
John

I wrap a lot of rods for commercial grouper guys here in St. Pete. They prefer 8' rods as the rod loads more and applys constant pressure on the fish while pumping the fish. The only two blanks I've ever built for them are the Seeker JB80H which has a lttle softer of a tip for the snapper and the Gator Glass T80XH for the meat stick. I have at least 20 of the T80XH blanks with the Fuji DPSH graphite heavy real seats, and everything else you'll need. If you live in the area come and get it for whatever I paid from Mudhole minus shipping since I went there and picked them up.

John/Scott,

Thanks for the info!

As far as length goes - when I fished with him, I never saw him use anything over 7'. I'm not sure if it was his preference or just because that was all he had. I'm a little leary of the 8'ers because I've never seen him use one. He fished with rods made from dogfishtacklecompany.com , and I believe they were 7' or less.

Long story made short, this is going to be a gift to him in return for inviting myself and a few buddies to stay at his place. We are driving from our home (TX) to his (Tampa) , staying for a week and doing nothing but fishing. In return, I'd like to give him a nice custom rod without breaking the bank.

Scott, with that said...unfortunately I'm not local and can't come pick one up. I appreciate the offer though!

I wouldn't mind an aluminum reel seat, just dont want a full metal butt, and probably not even a dura-butt or slick butt, as they are heavier. Trying to stay fairly inexpensive, and somewhat lightweight.

I also wouldn't mind using a turbo-guide as opposed to a wire guide, as they aren't too terribly expensive. I don't have any need for a stripper or roller tip though.

Someone mentioned the new live bait blank from Rain, but they seemed a little too light to me based on the line ratings, opinions?

Thanks again for the info guys. I'll start looking into these blanks.

SQ

Since most people grouper fish with the rod in their hands rather than in a holder a slick butt really wouldn't be necessary and would be very uncomftorable under your arm. A uni-butt (what you are calling a full metal butt) would also be uncomftorable and very heavy, which is not good if you are going to be holding the rod all day long. Roller guides also just add weight and are primarily used on trolling rods where long runs are expected. As you know, Grouper fishing usually involves locked down drags and while a lot of pressure is being applied to the guides line isn't ripping over them and therefore there's not enough friction to cause line breakage, that is why a lot of people just use those cheap NFG guides. I live about 5 min. from Dogfish, take a look at their website

[www.dogfishtacklecompany.com]

The bottom 6 rods are their grouper rods and 4 of them are 8' long, if he prefers a 7 footer then build him a 7' rod but most prefer an 8 footer.

Shawn ,I do all the dogfish repairs from what I have seen they use blanks from gator glass and Forecast in both 7 & 8 ft models always best to check with the person and find out what they prefer, I agree with Scott slick butts and uni butts have there place but not when the rod is held under the arm. One other reson for the NFG style is these rods take a beating and they hold up well to the banging around they get
John

Scott/John,

Thanks again for the info.

I'll probably try the 8' blank. If he hasn't used one yet, then it sounds like he needs to try it as they seem to be popular and the 'go to' method. He wont be complaining either way as it will be totally unexpected.

As far as the Gator Blanks - I have a Dogfish stick (the 8ft model 9F). I use it for shark fishing off of our beaches. Any idea which blank this is? Is it a gator? It looks smooth, so I don't think it's a gator. I like the action, fairly soft tip but good backbone.

Now, any opinions on Spiral/Acid wraps as opposed to conventional guide placement for this specific application?

I Know he gets a lot of 'twist' holding his rod up under his arm...wondering if trying a acid wrap may be a good idea?

Again - I am a complete newby. I wrapped a 'tagging stick' for tagging our land based sharks we catch and release. Other than that, I haven't done much other than read and watch. So, this is a learning experience.

Thanks,
SQ

I know Dogfish epoxy's the entire blank so it could be a GG but I really don't know what blanks they are using, John would have to be the better person to ask since he is doing repairs for them.

Spiral wrapped rods work great and will alleviate a lot of the torque when fighting fish. I don't build too many like that becuase the commercial guys typically think they know everything about fishing and that physics don't apply to them.

Shawn Dogfish has their rods made by a couple of small companies in Fl. As Scott said they flex coat the entire gator blanks if you pull of the butt cap or remove the gimball you can see if it is unsaned if so it is a Gator Glass, if it has a smooth butt it is Forecast
Also most times if the butt wrap is not underwrapped in a solid color usually metalic it is Gator Glass most likley the T80H
Spiral wraps are better almost always but he will get some strange looks and comments at least till someone else tries the rod

Do spiral wraps require certain guide types?

I don't think I've ever seen one with the wire/NF guides...maybe because the majority of the spiral wrapped rods I have seen have been 'high end' with top notch materials on them?

Just wonderind if there is something about the wire guides that would prevent me from doing a spiral wrap?

Thanks again.
Shawn

The only drawback I see with the wire guides for spiral wraps is that the wire is doubled up at the top of the guide (where the line would run) while the bottom of the guide is a single piece of wire (where the line runs on conventional setups).

Worried about that 2-wire area possible pinching or stressing the line more than usual? I would think that if anything, it would be less likely to stress it because there is more surface area to spread the load out on.

Form follows function - so if I can get by with the wire guides I may use them. If not, I may up the 'form' aspect and buy a nice set of boat guides with blue inserts to match the rest of the rod.

Thanks, as always.

SQ

The way I look at it is if you ran your hand 12" (single wire) across a piece of carpet a little friction would build up, but if you ran your hand 24" (double wire) it might peel back some skin. but like I said earlier with locked down drags and slow reels line screaming across guides doesn't happen when grouper fishing. Plus the NFS guides (spinning version of the NFG) are doubled up where the line runs, so my theory may not hold water.

I've personally been using the Fuji single foot boat guides.

It's personal preference which style of guides you go with. My grouper rod had the the fouldproof wire guides, no insert to knock out and not a whole lot of running with grouper. I preferred the 8' sticks myself, but 7' works fine too.

Dogfish makes some decent rods for the $$, I don't think I've heard a bad thing about them.

May want to consider something along the lines of the Pac-Bay graphite channel lock reel seat with aluminum hoods. Lightweight, colorful, plenty strong, and inexpensive too. I use them on quite a few saltwater rods right now.

Phil

On a side note: … Shawn Queeney of Texas wrote: "… this is going to be a gift to him in return for inviting myself and a few buddies to stay at his place. We are driving from our home (TX) to his (Tampa), staying for a week, and doing nothing but fishing. In return, I'd like to give him a nice custom rod without breaking the bank."

As someone who has had such invitations and hospitality extended to me, I ask you to think about this: The value of your host's boat is probably 500-1,000 times the cost of your rod gift. And the house is probably worth at least 2 if not 4 times the value of his boat. Your gracious family member has several thousand times the value of any one fishing rod invested in being your friend, your fishing buddy and your host in the vacation destination of half the planet - FLORIDA-USA. Honor him accordingly - Go ahead and break the piggy bank !!

Shawn, even if you gave him 4 bottom rods and / or 4 trolling rods, it would not be too much, even if each of them was built with ~$165 worth of parts ($650+). If you booked a charter Captain for 5 days (~$700 / day) and booked accommodations for 7 days (~$100 / nite for a cheap motel, and up to $300 / nite for a condominium), you boys would be spending like $4,000++ for this vacation. From that perspective, it pays for you all to be generous in appreciation toward your host, even if he is family. In fact, maybe because he is family, he should be especially treated with such gratitude & respect.

Pay as much as you all can for all of his cash outlay expenses (gasoline, bait, chum, ice, docking, drinks, food, house-keeping, etc) so that it costs him NEXT TO NOTHING to go fishing and next to nothing to have all of you along for the ride, because you and your buddies took care of the cash expenditures. And you INCREASED his expendable tackle inventory & arsenal of fishing rods (& reels). Right?

Try it. "Same time next year, Shawn!" will be his parting words to you, I'll bet, … Happy Easter, … -Cliff Hall, Gainesville, FL-USA.

P.S. - If you don't have much experience as a helping hand to a busy Captain, consider taking a short course in Boating & Seamanship with the U.S. Power Squadron or U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary, or other agency. With your host at the helm trying to position the boat over his productive bottom, he will need at least one of his guests to be competent to drop the anchor without falling overboard or poking a hole in the hull, and tying off your rode on a cleat without it slipping or jamming. And if you can take the helm, he can do another task or get a head (potty) break. Always good insurance to have more than one competent mate & navigator on board in case of an emergency.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2007 08:00AM by Cliff Hall.

Cliff I think you are way off on this one. Not everything is about money. When I have family members come in I don't expect them to pay for anything. The excitement they get from doing something I get to do everyday is payment enough and if one of them enjoyed it so much that they wanted to build me a rod I think that would mean way more than if they paid for everything. Like mama always said, It's the thought that counts.

Thanks, Scott for sharing another view. ... To me, it is not about the money, either. It's about an attitude of gratitude. Sometimes we treat strangers better than our own family, and take family for granted. Sharing costs is one way to show our appreciation, in addition to our thanksgiving (not in lieu of it). ... Obviously, there are other ways as well, as you have implied. Shawn's relative is obviously a generous soul to begin with, ...

My Grandmother taught me to be careful not to show up as a guest empty-handed or cool-hearted, even at family gatherings. (And that actions speak louder than words - or thoughts.) ... Sometimes love & joy is the only gift we could afford to bring.

Good Friday & Happy Easter, ... -Cliff Hall.