How far would you go to make a sale? I have a guy right now who is maybe the most demanding customer I've ever dealt with. Nothing seems to satisfy him. He wants a special color blank that I'll have to produce myself by stripping and repainting the blank that has the action and power he prefers. But when I add up my time and effort, it puts the final rod cost at a price that he doesn't want to pay. He claims to be somebody that could buy many more rods if he likes the first one he buys from me. I could do this one for a little less if it means that I'll sell more rods to him and his buddies in the future. But I'm not sure I want to do this. There is no guarantee that he will buy more rods. I don't know him from Adam.

Just wondered how far some of you would go to land a sale based on the idea that it could lead to many more sales. If you have, has it worked out? I don't want to give my work away and feel I can build this gentleman a very nice rod, but he is strongly objecting to what I think is a fair price all things considered.

Unless he is paying for all those "many more rods" at this very moment, consider only what you are getting paid for. That is the very best advice that I could possibly give you.

He may be just saying that, as you know, to get you to negotiate. You've already established that he's difficult to deal with. So, ask yourself if you really want him buying lots of rods from you and driving you up the wall all the time. If you are a full time builder, you might have to deal with him but I wouldn't lower your price as an enticement. If you are a parttime builder, I definitely would not lower your price. He can accept your price or go somewhere else to bother some other builder.

I've only built one rod for a difficult person and I failed to enjoy a single minute of the experience. Even cashing the check didn't make up for the aggravation. If I'd known he would be that big a pain in my butt, I would have quoted double and made him walk away.

If you give him a price break now, it's a good bet that he'll expect it every time, and so will anybody he sends to you, that is, if you ever see him again. Only you can decide if the final price is worth your time, what you might gain from dropping to his price, and what it could mean later down the road, good or bad. Also, if you would enjoy building the rod, or would it turn into "work". Personally, I would be suspicious of his "future intent" to commision more rods if he's already trying to cheap out. If my price can't be met, then I don't make a sale. No loss to me. Just my opinion, of course.

These sort of business decisions have to be based on your personal judgment. It's not always easy to do, but as you deal with more and more customers you'll be better able to read most of them.

When I was engaged in selling rods to the public, I don't think I ever reduced my price for anyone. In fact, when they balked or tried to talk me down on price, I raised the price right then and there. More than one guy saw his proposed rod undergo a price increase as we spoke. The folks that couldn't appreciate what I was doing were not the people I wanted for customers. No offense to them, but I didn't see them as ever becoming part of the clientele I was trying to cultivate. A guy who is trying to beat you down now is probably going to do the same thing every time he comes back, if he comes back at all.

I have no idea what kind of rapport you have with him. Some people can bargain and deal with you in a way that isn't upsetting and if this is the case then you might want to engage in further discussion with him. I can't read him nor you in a message board post so I really can't grasp the nature of the negotiation. All I can do is tell you that I've always stood pretty firm on price but might kick in a rod bag or something for the better customers who bought several rods at one time. What I wouldn't and won't stand for is continued haranguing or inconsideration. Even today I'll try to bend over backwards for my customers (magazine subscribers) and give them every possible benefit of the doubt in nearly any matter. But when they start to get belligerent, unreasonable or just plain bothersome (yes, some do) I have no problem dropping them from the subscriber base.

In the long run, you want customers that appreciate what you do and are willing to pay for it. You don't want problems and as your own boss you have the luxury of deciding who to do business with and who not to. Don't let it go to your head, however. You need to treat your customers the way you'd want to be treated. But you don't need to let anyone walk on you or create unnecessary headaches. Life is to short for that and I'm guessing that you don't depend on selling custom rods for a living.

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Most sales are handled using skills in a need satisfaction type model. You and your customer have needs and they all must be satisfied for both parties to be happy. If things are handles properly both the buyer and the seller are winners. Make two lists one for him and one for you.

He wants. special blank, special color & reduced price

You want. to build this rod, referrals, make a profit in the long run

When it comes right down to it your are holding a powerful card - where else can the get the rod he wants and what would it cost?

He is tempting you with an unknown - future sales.

Find common ground - upgrade his initial request with higher quality components and raise the intial price you quoted

Maybe an agreed upon finders fee for all future sales referrals. If this is done be completely honest in all future build for people he refers.

One of your primary jobs is to make HIM feel he is the winner in the negotiations.

The same principle would apply if you were selling cars, rods or aspirin tablets.

I had one guy trying to get me to fix up a rod for nothing and even ship it across the state to where another buddy or his was at , as he could bring me lots of new and repair biz. I just looked at it, like whose going to pay a double shipping charge to and from someone on the otherside of the state when there has to be someone locally that can fix it there, and if a repair for half the cost of shipping. This guy just saw the facts as he needed to see them as his across state friend was building him a web site and this customized rod was payment. Some guys are just cheap, (I should know) I will always do more than the customer expects and offer lots of freebies like rod cleaning after a year or two, applying ferrule lube or cork seal, putting in more time on a rod.

What your dealing with is not even worth calling the Wimpy plan, where he gladly pays you tuesday for a hamburger today. This guy is a con artist, and won't nearly work as hard at getting you more business then the effort he expends making sure he gets a deal. I'd never recolor a blank for this guy for the simple reason that it probalbly void the warranty , and with this guy you want that intacted in the least.

Smile, say no thank you, and walk away. If you feel confident in doing the work required and are satisfied with your price model then that's all you can do. If he has inflated price expectations then that's his problem.

Have been in this situation years ago. If anything goes wrong, he'll expect the same service as your longterm full paying customers, or more, forever. Also ethically I think your doing your other customers a disservice by giving something to him you didn't or wouldn't do for them.

It has been my experience in my real estate appraisal business that when a client starts trying to get into my pocket via reduced fees, they are not really that interested in my product but in either getting a deal or just plain cheap. The lure of promises of "future business" has been heard so many times it it pathetic. All they are interested in doing is getting you to do what they want you to do.

My suggestion is that if you cannot economically justify any kind of reduced fee based on the order in hand, don't hang your hat on the promises of future business. It has been my experience that just doesn't materialize.

The other thing is that you have to set in your mind what your product is worth. If you are charging too much for what you are producing, then you might need to think about reducing your fees. However, if you are producing a superior or a specialized product and the return on the sale justifies the time, materials and effort into the product, why would you want to take less. It is amazing how many people call for quotes and tell me that I am too high in my fees or my turn time is too long only to come back at some point in time and place the order because the cheaper appraiser was not qualified or not approved by the lender. Don't apologized for your work...and don't give it away.

These are just some basic business decisions that all of us have to make from time to time.

I am new to rod building but, I am a woodcarver who has sold many quality carved fish to clients. I would rather give something away to someone who appreciates the quality, efforts and talents it takes to carve the fish than sell it to someone who wants to keep bartering and bickering after a final price has been agreeded upon. If all else fails, put everything in writting up front.

Jeff Hill

Some good advice above and lots of it. My experience in twenty five years of "wheelin' & dealin" is that if they grind you the first time promising that it's going to open the flood gates of business, it's more than likely going to open the flood gates to more of the same. If they're going to push you around the first time, it generally just gets worse down the road.

If it were me and I wasn't struggling for business, I'd be quoting him shop rate (hourly) on the paint job from the get go. $30-$40 an hour is pretty much the going rate out here. "estimate" how long it's going to take (1-2 hours), but tell him that it may take a base coat to get his color right, may take an extra coat or two of Perma Gloss, etc... Unless you KNOW you can do it in an hour, give him a window. "Could be this, or could be that". Don't let him pin you down to a $$ amount for the paint.

If he doesn't want to pay for your time to prep, paint and put several coats of Perma Gloss on the blank, tell him to do it himself if it's as easy as he thinks and bring it to you ready to assemble. Or, get a quote on a GUSA, CTS, etc... that are available in custom colors. That should put things into perspective for him. Better yet, have HIM call GUSA and get a lead time & price on a paint job. (928) 341-4939

Don't sell yourself short here.

Mark Griffin
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C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2007 12:12PM by Mark Griffin.

My advice is similar to everyone else's. You won't see additional sales from this guy, he won't be a word of mouth advertiser for you, and chances are, if you bust your tail and make no profit on the rod, and turn out a gorgeous product, he still won't be satisfied. Tell him the price is what it is, if he can't pay it, go to Wal-Mart and buy an ugly stick and a can of spray paint. Ok, maybe not that harsh......

I'm not in the business currently of selling rods and haven int th epast, but in other business, first time buyer gets no breaks - whether I'm seelling underwear or rocket fuel or anything in between - he gets the same treatment as any normal joe.

When and if he comes back for the 3rd rod, or 5th or so on, then I'll decide his worth as a customer based on referals, if any, and his attitude while doing business with him, and consider working with him a bit as a loyal and pleasant customer/client

I don't build rods to sell; just the occassional friend who pays for components and asks me to build for him. However, my general experience with people tells me to graciously exit that kind of relationship on the front end. People who walk through the door with a list of demands do not usually get happier unless there is some sort of character change on their part. I would try to egress on good terms before getting to the "mutual frustration" part.

Say no thank you and walk away from this guy. There are clients you want to cultivate for a long term relationship and there are customers you don't want at any price. This one sounds like the latter type....dump him early and save yourself the grief down the road.

It is much easier to simply say no thanks than it is to sever a business relationship you have allowed to go down the wrong path for too long. There will be plenty of good clients to replace any business you might get from this guy. This is true in any business endeavor and especially so in a one-on-one personal business like rod building.

Joe Douglas

I have a semi regular customer that is a cane rod dealer and brings in rods for repair. he always needs it in a hurry and then wants to haggle on the price. I got so tired of it that I now send him a price list of services with his Chrismas card. On the bottom is the disclaimer that rush jobs cost 25% more. the bottom line is that if he wants quality work he needs to spend the money and time.

As far away and as fast as possible.

You have all given me some good food for thought. I will stick to my price and not worry too much over it. None of us likes to lose a sale but after reading your responses and considering all the angles, I can see that there are some sales that you're better off not making.