Hi, I recently purchased the 3C68MXF and the 3C69MLXF St. Croix Avid blanks. I wanted to Simple Spiral wrap them. (Bumper Wrap) I can see where these blanks would be great for spinning rods and very versatile as spinning rods. My problem is as casting rods the Extra Fast Action does not seem to lend itself well to a spiral wrap for a casting rod. I think if I shorten the 3C68MXF to about 6'3" removing 5" from the butt section, I may be able to get it to work using the Simple Spiral. The rod would still be a pretty fast blank. I am thinking along the same line with the 3C69MLXF. I am a little concerned about what it will take to load even a small #6 fly guide as the first 180 degree guide in the area just after the extra fast tip section of these blanks. I would like to keep these rods the factory lengths. Has anyone ever done a Simple Spiral of either of these two blanks, or blanks that are similar that could give me a starting point to work from. Thank you for any help and advise you can give me, have a great day, Rich.

Try placing the guides and moving them around, you should be able to figure something out. CLoser to teh stripper, further away, larger guide, smaller guide.

Hi Billy, I have moved the guides up and down the blank, kind of came to a conclusion that in order for the first 180 degree guide to load and still have the bumper guide remain neutral, I may have to shorten the blanks. I am wondering that since these blanks have a lot of backbone, maybe I can move the butt guide back, go with a longer spacing for the 180 degree guide and maybe get away with the first 180 guide and third guide not having a lot of load since I cannot see these blanks bending that far back for the size of I normally catch. Thank you for you advice, Rich.

Rich try putting the guides on it as a simple spiral and casting it I wouldn't worry too much about the first 180 degree guide loading. I've built a couple with the spiral wrap and they all casted as well as a conventional setup. Good luck.

Stan

Hi Stan, thank you for your advice. I think you are right. As long as I use enough SF guides far enough back from the tip, the blank should still be supported where it needs to be. The 3C68MXF has such a stout butt section I cannot see it bending even if the guides were done in a conventional setup. Thank you again for your advice, have a great day, Rich.

Where's your stripper located in relation to the spool face? It might help if you move it back a little. Also, try moving the bumper back toward the stripper a bit rather than centered between the stripper and the 180. I've found that helps to load that first 180 many times.

I prefer the Fast/Ex-Fast blanks for spiral wrapping, but usually use use a two guide transition (Forhan Revolver style) on them.

Mark Griffin
[]
C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California

A slightly larger (# 8-?) guide for the first 180 guide may do it, too, Rich?

added later-I realize now that this is thinking exactly the wrong direction. I think I wasn't thinking!! (I think... LOL!).

Putter
Williston, ND



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2007 06:45PM by Randy Parpart (Putter).

Hi Mark and Randy, sorry my reply took so long, having trouble bringing up the site today. Mark the stripper guide is at twenty inches. I think my problem has to do with my handle length. A split grip that is 13 1/4 in length, makes it short enough to cast one handed and not get it the way and long enough so I can cast it comfortably with two hands also. The St.Croix casting rod built on this blank says that the handle for it is 18 3/8" in length total. If I understood their handle chart correctly. Randy thank you for the advice on the #8 guide, I did try that and it seemed to bring the line further away from loading. I have two handles I am switching out, one handle that would make it a six foot three rod and the other that would make it a six foot nine rod. I am kind of debating just making it a six foot three because it seems I will be loosing five inches of handle from St Croix casting version. The St. Croix 3C62MXF has a handle that is 13 1/2" and I think it may be made from the same blank. Thank you for advice, have a great day, Rich.

Why would the fast action of this blank make it non-suitable for the Simple Spiral? I can't imagine what you're talking about. I've done the 3C69MLFX and it's perfect.

Too much is being made of loading the guides - they will load, particularly the ones just behind the initial action.

The Bumper guide will not affect loading precisely because it does not carry any load. If it does, you don't have something set up correctly.

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Hi Tom, I think that the 3C69MLXF will be possible to do the Simple Spiral. The rod I am having trouble with is the 3C68MXF. It would be great to have some measurements and guide sizes from your 3C69MLXF to get a better understanding of what I need when I put that rod back on the bench. It seems the 3C68MXF just does not have a bend until a long way down the blank. If 27" is not to far from the reel spool face for the butt guide I guess I can get it to work correctly, 27" just looks like a long ways from the reel spool. I have only done a couple previous Simple Spirals and they where on MM blanks and very easy to get the bumper guide positioned exactly in the middle of the butt guide and first 180 degree guide. I am probably missing something while testing. Thanks to everyone for your help, have a great day, Rich.

hi Rich,
I just spiral wrapped a 5C68MXF. email me at suzannehelm@sbcglobal.net. I'm sure we can sort this out.
Jeff Helm

Hi Jeff, thank you for your help, I will send you a email, Rich.

Rich
I don't understand how changing handles can change the length of the rod? Also you state that the 3C68MXF does not have a bend until way down the blank which is wrong if this is a extra fast blank. You should have a bend in the top 1/4 of the rod.

I think I would start with the Butt guide at the 15 to 16 inch mark from the reel face and work from there. Not certain what the advantage of the first 180 guide loading is but I have wrapped quite a few simple spirals without worrying too much about it.

Rolly Beenen
Rovic Custom Rods

Hi Rolly, I have two different split grip handles, one is reamed out to slide tightly down to make the the a six foot two inch for static deflection, the other handle is reamed further out to slide all the way to the end of the blank to check the static guide setup. I meant from the butt of the rod it is a long ways down the blank until it has any noticeable bend. Thank you for your help and advice. I am going to send Jeff a email since he already Spiral Wrapped a 3C68MXF. I am just missing something, have a great day, Rich.

Rich,

You are obviously missing something. Have you read the article or are you attempting to piece this together from things you've read on the internet?

There is no reason in the world that it won't work perfectly. Why are set on putting the butt guide 27 inches from the reel?

I guess I'm either not understanding something here or just fail to see what you're trying to do. You would be hard pressed to find a blank that the Simple Spiral won't work perfectly on.

Assuming your guides are positioned as per the article states, you only need to use a lower frame for the first 180 guide, or a smaller ring, against the remainder of the 180 degree guides. But even this would be a rare, rare, necessity. And almost never on a fast action blank.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2007 06:42PM by Tom Kirkman.

Hi Tom, No I have the article on the Simple Spiral, (Bumper Wrap) I agree I am just missing something. I have sent Jeff a email since he already has done this particular blank. Thank you and everyone for your help. Have great day, Rich.

Why do you have to put the butt guide so far forward? Put it back about 14 to 15 inches from the reel face. The first 180 guide will end up somewhere around 8 to 10 inches past that and the bumper guide goes exactly halfway between those two.


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Hi Tom, thank you for the all the help. I will put the butt guide at 14 or 15 inches and retry my static test. Thank you again for your help, have a great day, Rich.

NONE of the guides on the butt area are going to load until you put enough load on the blank to get it to flex that far back. You can't hang an ounce off the tip and then say something's wrong because the first 180 degrees guide isn't loading. It's not supposed to load until the load gets transferred that far back on the blank. Keep hanging more ane more weight on the blank and I bet you it will load at some point. They all will.

Hi Shawn, I have a rod holder that clamps to my rod bench, I put the rod in the holder, I tie off the rod tip to a eyelet that is screwed into the top of the bench where I do my static tests. I then run line from the reel through the guides and tie a half ounce casting weight to the line and let it hang. Then I rotate the rod holder up at intervals to adjust the guides for a spacing that allows the line to mimic the flex of the rod blank as close as possible without touching the blank. I can put a very big load on any rod with the rod holder I am using. Maybe that is what I am doing wrong. I do think I have my problem figured out. Thank you for your help, Have a great day, Rich.