What is the best thing to use to thin epoxy. I want to thin my epoxy for the first application. I have been told to use denatured alchohol. Does this work with all brands of epoxy.

No, not a good idea. Thinning epoxy is not recommended by any epoxy manufacturer (and no, Flex Coat does not manufacture epoxy).

If you stil want to do this, you need to use something that will leave the mix more quickly than alcohol. Such a product would be acetone.

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thanx for the advice I am only asking because a fellow rodbuilder said he did this for his first coat and his epoxy looked great. I usually use u-40 as it seems to work good. maybe I will just try a thinner coat on first app.

I have never thinned epoxy and don't see a need to. If you want a thinner finish learn to work a little faster when the epoxy is at it's thinnest. I use a 200 RPM motor and put a coat on each guide. After I get to the tip I go down the rod again and brush off the excess. On a 7' rod it's done in 5 minutes or less.

If you want a thinner epoxy without using anything to dilute it, Threadmaster Lite will be on the market very soon and should be the ticket for anyone who likes to thin their finish. With this new Lite epoxy there will never again be a need for anyone to use acetone or anything else to thin their finish.

Personally, I would never thin it. You didn't say what problem you were having with your finish but most problems are due to too much finish.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Most US rod manufacturers thin their first coat of epoxy with acetone. There are two reasons for thinning , #1 to extended pot life & #2 for speed of application. If you just want a thin coat you can just push down a little harder on your brush. You may want to look at FLEX COAT"S web site -"Measuring and Mixing, how we do it". Also most manufacturers do not thin their second coat.

If you ever want to discuss epoxy finishes give me a call at the number below.

Roger Seiders

Flex Coat Co. Inc.
PO Box 190
15901 FM 150 West
Driftwood, TX 78619 USA
Phone 512.858.7742
Fax 512.858.7852

Also when thinning a epooxy like Flex Coat with acetone, measuring is credical. To much aceton and your epoxy wil be soft and not really set up. I would contact Flex Coat like John suggests
Good Wraps Bob

For me, being sure to work in a very warm room (75ºF+) is all the "thinning" I ever need for applying the 1st or 2nd coat of epoxy.

Jason, Acetone is the way to go. But another option as mentioned above that also works well is to have the epoxy warmed before you apply it. I have placed the epoxy bottles in simmering water and warmed it that way. Good luck!



Kevin Knox
ANGLER'S ENVY CUSTOM RODS
QUEEN ANNE, MD 21657
#_#_#_#_#
www.anglersenvy.com

Though I do not thin finish myself I was going to post that some do as a matter of technique to increase ease of application.

Warming finish thins it too but can dramatically decrease the working time of the material, i.e pot life.

Lou

Rather than thinning for a light first coat use Perma Gloss for the first application. It will set up quickly and penetrates well.

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2007 10:11AM by Stan Grace.

Joe Hepp is dead on the money,

Take your finish, place it in the microwave and warm it, this THINS the finish conciderably! It makes the finish mix better and apply easier on the 1st coat. About 10-15 seconds usually does it and I do each of the two 4oz bottles seperately for that time length.

DR

I like Joe I nuke the 2 bottle for 10 to 15 seconds. Make sure you uncap the lides. By warming the 2 bottles it helps in mixing and helps eliminate air bubbles.
Good Wraps Bobs

Rod manufacturers often have to finish several rods with one batch. This is one reason they thin their epoxy. Most custom builders are finishing one rod at a time, which shouldn't take more than a few minutes.

Commercial rod makers also feel that the lifetime of a fishing rod is about 3 years, during which time the rod will be broken, lost, stolen, or simply replaced with a newer model. Their expectations of what the finish has to do and for how long is not the same as the expectations of most custom rod builders.

A room temperature finish is easier to work with than one that's cold, say, below 68F. The only problem with heating finish in the microwave is that you shorten the pot life considerably.

What sort of problem are you having that you feel thinning the finish will help with? Perhaps we can offer more help if we know what attributes you're shooting for in your finish.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2007 11:59AM by Tom Kirkman.

Tom that is vary true. When rods a mass produced the person who is appling the finish also flames the epoys to break bubbles and remove any excess finish
Good Wraps Bob

Jason,

I do admire your desire to attempt something different. But I would not thin a finish using any additional chemicals that are not already included, or not recommended via the MSDS sheet. There just isn't any real way to know what the long term affects to the rod, and especially to your health are. Like many of the rod builders participating on this website, I always work towards a thinnly-applied finish to my wraps. But I have always worked on perfecting my application techniques rather than using a chemical-based solution. A little judicious use of heat and wicking away of excess finish has worked well for me on most of my projects. I use Flex-Coat Lite and PermaGloss, and get great results as is.
If you really wish to see the results of such an experiment, I recommend you test your theory out on scrap materials before applying it to a production rod for yourself or for others. John Anderson did a good job explaining how or why the industry does it. But if he recommends a technique-based method, then bells and whistles should be going off around you. Consider the hazards of using acetone in your home environment.


Good luck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2007 12:46PM by Patrick Vernacchio.

A note to all,
As a spokesman for Flex Coat Company I will state what Roger and the crew say will be Flex Coat’s statement on a subject but as an individual rod builder of many years I do have my own take on some subjects.

So, On a personal note, I have never thinned Flex Coat with an added chemical. I have worked with Flex Coat from the time before there was a Flex Coat Lite, only the original High Build. I would give a hearty second to Patrick’s comments about perfecting application techniques rather than adding chemicals to your epoxy. I still, to this day, only use Flex Coat High Build because I have developed my own techniques to get it to do what ever I need it to do. My first coat and all additional coats, are applied thinly by either mildly heating part A and then mixing with part B or just controlling how much is applied to the rod by brush pressure. Room temperature and epoxy temperature is very important to achieving a good finish too. The next factor in achieving a good finish with Flex Coat epoxies is to get in on the rod as quickly as you can in thin multiple coats ( I use a 100 rpm drying motor), I wick at the wraps with the flame from an alcohol lamp once and them leave it alone. It will level itself and release air bubbles as long as it is not to thick or has not gotten tacky. The main key is to learn your finish and build confidence in that finish that you can get the results you desire every time. I have built confidence in Flex Coat High Build over the years, and I can get it at a good price, so that is what I will stick with.

This is How I Do It. – John A.

LS Supreme was developed specificially to meet the same thin viscosity that normal epoxies exhibit when thinned with Acetone. Rod manufacturers have reasons for thinning their epoxies during application, but these reasons do not concern the custom rod builder. Rod manufacturers thinned epoxy also suffer from a reduced quality of coating which can effect the overall quality of the rod in the years ahead. Custom builders should try and utilize the optimum conditions in ALL of their rod components -- including the coating of the guides. LS Supreme was designed to give you that "optimum Coating" without the necessity of thinning. The new LS Supreme is also designed for the inexperienced rod builder, in the sense that it has an exceptionly long pot life, giving the novice builder plenty of time to complete all the guides on a rod with one mixing. The recommendations from Trondak is to NEVER thin your epoxies, regardless what other brands may recommend.

Ralph

As for the use of acetone. If you use acetone, do it in a well ventilated area. This chemical well damage your lungs and will explode if used near a flame.
Good Wraps Bob