Just wondering what everyone thinks. Are SiC or TiCH/TiGold, or even Alconite guides worth the extra money. I don't think I have ever seen Hialloy or Hardloy's actually wear out.

Marc

I really like the TiSic's. Light, look smart and IMHO cant beat that insert. On a spinning/casting rod there great for braid and nice and slick with a fly line. If you have the budget why settle?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2007 06:14PM by Scott Bazinet.

I think that SiC guides are definitely worth it, especially the Fuji titanium/SiCs. In fact, I've gotten to the point where I'd rather build fewer rods with SiC guides, than more rods with other guides. I'd have trouble giving you any actual scientific data about how much better they are than Hardloy, Alconite, etc., but they just "feel" better to me when I'm fishing. Maybe I've just bought into all the marketing. . . .

Though there's nothing wrong with hardloy or alconite, I just have a hard time thinking of my rods as "custom" when they have the same old guides that their factory counterparts do. I want to feel like I did the absolute very best on each rod, and SiC guides (though perhaps overkill) make me feel like I gave the customer the best rod possible.

Yes they are. There are two reasons why:

1) Your customer thinks they are worth it. He has read an article in Sports Afield or BassPro or has heard a comment on OLN that they are better because they don't groove when you use hybrid or braided lines or Spiderline. He has been told by a buddy how they are lighter and stronger. He has been told by someone in a tackle store or a BassPro store who sounded enough like an expert to intimidate him that they make the rod lighter (never mind the fact that the manufacturer used four guides total on a seven foot rod to not only make it lighter, but to cut costs by half). He has heard that you can step on them and they won't break (or in the case of REC guides, bend them all the way down to the blank). He actually likes holographic, prizmatic or bright blue guide rings.

The point is, in his preception, they are worth it. And if he's gonna pay for a custom rod, then he's bloody well goona get up-market guides. They then become part of the "brag" he can do about his new rod. His buddies will be impressed. Never discount for even a minute how much that's worth.

2) You have tried most all of the different kinds of guides and rings and you have found some of them to be lighter, perhaps stronge, more impervious to saltwater or just even to normal wear and tear, like being stepped on in the bottom of the boat or not rinsed at the end of a long, tiring day. Or maybe YOU like prizms, holographs, or bright blue.

Some of them are really good stuff. Someone, somewhere is putting a Hialloy or Hardloy guide to some use you and I never thought of and they are, indeed, wearing out or popping out of the frame or grooving or breaking or just grunging up. If you can upgrade the guides on a custom rod and make it worth half again what it was with lower-cost guides, then that's reason enough.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

SiC guides are DEFINITELY overrated and unecessary for my type of stream fly fishing. i've never bought any but have only wrapped about a dozen rods so far. even in my daydreaming, they don't compute. i go with zirconiums with TiCH coating frames because i like the look more than anything else. heck, i'm about to install old style mildrums on a bamboo blank i hope to receive soon. i'm curious how it will feel or sounds. but again, for the look which is a big part of bamboo fly stuff. i think it's fair to say though that form equals function, not supercedes it.

all of these guides and others will do the job just fine i think for my type of fishing and i don't do this professionally in the sense of catering to customer's needs and desires.

eric
fresno, ca.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2007 06:39PM by eric zamora.

For SW, Titanium frames are really worth it. However, SIC is really not worth the cost over the price of an Alconite ring, performance wise for the fishing I do. It's a shame they donot make TI-Alco just to make them more affordable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2007 06:55PM by Billy Vivona.

Billy V is right on in his post ...being on salt water all my life if you don't want any corosion titanium is the only way to go.
I would like to see an outfit come up with a alconite titanium also for the light surf casting especially .[do you copy American
Tackle ?]

When I am wrapping for someone I ask them what they want and what their pockets can afford. ALL guides are good and
with a little up keep knowledge offered by the rod builder they should have no problem.

Tight Lines
Tight Wraps
Fishin'Stix by Fred

If they make you or your customer's feel better, go for it. Other than Titanium for salt, I have found NO performance difference between any of them although I haven't tried the gold cermet and probably never will. I do like the Alconites and American Tackle Titans, though. My customers seem to be FAR more impressed with colored guide rings (blue, holo, gold,silver) than the material.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I mostly build float rods for folks, and I can without any hesitation and with 100% honesty, the alconites and and SIC's are compared to hialloys and especially hardloys.

Case in point. I have a 15 foot float rod built with hardloys and the line "howls" through the guides when I play a fish, and feels like there is a lot of friction. the rod is about 5 years old and has many fish landed with it. The second rod is about 6 years old, has SIC guides, is used more, and line is smooth as still going through the guides.

Invest in the SIC's or even the Alconites. Your customer will be happier and the rod you build will be that much better.

Respectfully,
Paul

Aside from being "percieved better", or excessive abuse, has anyone really worn our Hialloys or Hardloys?

Marc

Sorry for the type-o on the last post. Meant to ask if anyone has WORN OUT HIalloys or Hardloys.

Thanks,
Marc

I will not compromise the quality of my rods that I build by using a set of cheap guides. To me if you are building rods on the finest blanks available why would you use guides that do not match the quality of the blank. Fuji Cermet guides with titanium frames are the best guides on the market. The titanium SIC guides run a distant second compaired to the Cermets. I've tried the other manufactures guides on rods that I use for experimental purposes but these rods I do not offer to the public for sell, they are used then given to fly fishing clubs for use by the members or go into my own collection.

MARC...

The hardloys on my 5 year+ old float rod are clearly worn out-Evident by the "howling" of the new fresh line through the guides. After new line is used, and about one day of fishing, the line starts howling again. It almost sounds like the line is grinding through the guides... And if you look at the guide insert, it does shows sign of wear and dis-semetric wear cause the line is always on the bottom...

Paul

GO with the SICs and if you don't want to spend the $ on the SICS, the Alconites would be the next choice...and of course the cermets are the apex of quality..

Don't skimp on guides, they will make all the difference in the world..

Heck, I've got hardloys on halibut rods that are 10 years old and use braided line and they are still in excellent shape. SIC's are nice....nice and expensive. They are an option, not a necessity. I put them on if a customer wants them, not because it makes a better rod.

MArc, I don't think you're going to get an answer to your question, because I dont' think anyone has actually worn them out. nfortunately, yor reluctance to tell peopel the type of fishing you are doing, has led to a wide array of answers for all tyes of fishing and for guys building for themselves, as well as for customers. I used HArdaloy in SW with braided line and they held up just fine. Everyone I know who used them, also held up just fine.

The asnwer to your question is still yes, tehy more expensive guides are really worth it.

Just my opinion...

Marc. Fishing here in Hawaii salt water conditions, Hardloys and Titanium coated framed guides haven't withstood the rigors of fishing here. Usually the frames corrode and snap, albeit after 5 years. Fuji titaniums in both cermet and SIC no problems except for user induced problems such as dropping pole over the cliff and the occasional bent frame. Bent frames are bent back into shape, no problem. Those titanium cermets sure look beautiful on a rod. No problem with the Titan guides too. Maybe they can come out with colored rings and the titan frames.

I'm most interested in UL to L rods, including some longer 9 footers. So, weight reducting in guides are felt more in lower power rods. I have some factory 15-40lb salt water guides. These have some Fuji Oxide guides and that doesn't bother me. So for our primary freshwater guides, I invest in the high end guides for weight reduction. My time/labor is worth a lot more than the cost ot the components so I do that.

PLUS, as long as I don't loose the rods, I can reuse the guides if the blank breaks.

Michael, I'm wondering why you consider the Ti SIC a distant second to the Cermets. The Cermets conduct heat better but is softer than the SIC. I spoke with someone high up at Angler's Resource who told me that he actually had some grooved cermet come back but not SICs.

Mo

Thanks for the reminder Billy, I forgot to mention type of fishing. 100% freshwater, lite to medium spinning applications, Bass, Walleye, Trout, Panfish.

Thanks everyone for you thoughts on this.

Marc

Mo
The Fuji Cermet guide is the slickest ceramic guide you can buy it is also the lightest, which makes it the best fly rod guide you can use, be it a 4 wt or a 16 wt. I build mostly fly rods used for big game blue water fishing. These rods take more abuse in on week of offshore fishing than most rods take in years. I have never seen the problem of the Cermet ring grooving nor have I seen the frames brake. I have a 8wt here that I've caught over 1000 false albacore on plus another 1000 bonefish on and the guides look fine. All of this was done using either 30 or 50 pound test braided spectra backing. The titanium alloy used in the Cermets is not the same as used in the SIC guides. I'm not sure if Fuji uses 6AL4V titanium to build their Cermet frames but that's what it looks like to me. Just because a manufacturer says he uses titanium to build the frame does not mean he is is using the best titanium alloy. That would be like saying all ceramic rings are the same.