Can anyone give me info on the blanks shimano is using for their butterfly system jigging rods. Need to build with different components. All help greatly appreciated.

Do a search on "vertical jigging" and select "all dates". Be prepared to spend some time reading!

alot of good info on there, seems like they are a great starter rod. not really for bigger size fish..i guess if the blanks were avail to us we could use for inshore fishing..for flounder and stuff

NERBS



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2007 09:36AM by paul reyburn.

A fine alternative to those blanks, if you're looking for a similar action when you hook into a big fish, is to head down to your local grocery. By a 1# package of spaghetti. Take it home and boil it a bit beyond aldente. Now, wind your guides onto that...and there you have it...a bonafide Shimano jigging rod.

Good luck.

Jay

and that from a man who knows blanks and food..LOL...can i wrap mini turbos on the #8 size

NERBS

lol

Sorry for the light hearted post...I was in a laughing mood and figured my 'limp noodle' jigging rod post would garner a reaction.

Having actually never pulled on a Trevala rod I can't say from personal experience, but the pictures I've seen of people pulling on big fish and people pulling on inanimate objects at fishing shows tend to leave you wondering....."why". These rods look like the entire blank bends all the way up to the handle. We're not talking 'flexing' up to the handle...we're talking nearly a 90 degree bend up at the forward grip. Plenty of people have lots of success fishing with Japanese long jigs on other blanks...I can't see the advantage of the Trevala blanks. Once you hook up it looks like you have to reel the fish in w/o the aid of the rod. Maybe I don't have a clue (it wouldn't be the first time), but I would think you could find a better blank by looking to Lamiglass, Calstar, Seeker, or Jigging Master.

Good luck.

Jay

Bill thanks for the search thread. Good info. I made notes.
Jay, your point is taken, the rod has a slow/progressive bend very similar to a solid glass blank. I am sure there are plenty of just as good or better rods for grouper/snapper jigging but this system is hot right now (called Shimano marketing). My charge from customer is to build on the Trevala blank (that he is having success with) but with a different handle and top . I was just trying to find out if the trevala blanks were available before I offered either an alternate or to strip his two and rebuild them. On a personal note the blank has a very funky surface appearance, like a 7' clear gray composite blank was "smashed" to a 6' length. Also had a Shimano dealer tell me he had to be certified by a Shimano rep to be technically able to demonstrate the rod before he could buy them. (Go figure that one)

Ron,

Jay's spot on with his description.

As for Shimano and the blank's availability, don't hold your breath. I inquired at the ICAST show and was told they weren't available "yet". However, if I wanted to spend $10K to get into the Butterfly/Top Shelf program, get "certified", etc, etc, etc... I’d be the first one to know if/when the blanks WERE available.

I actually considered it for a month or so until the word came back from the San Diego Long Range Fleet on these rods and it wasn't pretty... There were actually fights breaking out on several boats because of customers insisting on using these set ups on 100lb + Yellowfin. The rods were bent back THROUGH the handles, basically turning the rod into nothing but a holder for their reel, guys were making 10 trips around the boat, causing tangles, lost fish for others, etc, before they would get the fish to color, After a couple of days of this and having people at each other's throats, the Skippers asked them to leave them in the rack. That news made me keep my $10K in my (I really mean Colleen's) pocket on the HOPE of seeing these blanks IF they were made available.

The bulk of the inquiries that we get on this type of blank are for Long Range Tuna, which obviously isn't working. Grouper may well be a different story depending on the boat, location, etc... Long story short, if he's sold on the action, similar blanks are available from a number of sources. You're just not going to find Shimano branded blanks any time soon.


Mark Griffin
[]
C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California

Mark you might do very well financailly with an exclusive licence for the jiggers if you had a complimentary line of firearms with high velocity shells. Then you could sell a blank and protection to anyone who wanted to chase a fish through a crowd. They do not work around oil platforms in the Gulf either. Catch rate for large snapper or grouper is about 1 in 20. Jigs expensive at that rate - they come on board with a suitcase full of the things and leave with none and no fish.

Obviously not worth the hassle. I have lost total interest at this point, which is why this board is so valuable. Moving on back to my small niche of self-proclaimed expertise while IT is still there. Thanks everyone on the info.
capt. ron

Bill,

Is that what you guys had in mind when you started sinking .50 cal's into your butt caps? See, you're always a step ahead of the game. And allowing me to keep me right out front there too... lol

Maybe we'd be a little bit more "PC" if you just incorporated a Fish Bat into the grip and I'll hold the bat consession for you.

Mark Griffin
[]
C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California

Just ordered the "Fish Bat Pins" from the Bone Guy! Here they come!

I'm getting kind of tired of hearing of all the bashing on these rods.

There is nothing wrong with the rods. They aren't "limp noodles". Did shimano screw up labeling them to 200lb? I think so. But they have a definite use and their own niche in my aresenal.

If someone takes a trout rod out on a party boat and hooks tuna with it, it's not the rod's fault. It's the dummy who takes it out there to begin with. Take it back and use it for what it was designed for, and it's a great tool.

Here in Japan, the actual jigging rods that are meant for catching large fish are quite hefty little pieces of equipment, even though the blank has a slower action than most are used to. It helps give the lure action as well as absorb some of the shock while using braid. I have a Shimano Scorpion "Ocea Jigger", the higher end version of the trevala sold in Japan, and have caught everything from 40lb mahi to five foot sharks, 35lb amberjack on it with 30lb braid. It's an awesome rod, only rated 15-30lb. Would I take it out on a party boat in San Diego for anything but small school yellowtail...? No.

There are other blanks that are available to do the same job. Lamiglas's CGBT series works well, as does their 6630/6650 jigging blanks they have came out with. I've used the shorter Seeker Black Steel's with good success, although the tips can be somewhat light, and there is a model of Calstars, something along the lines of a Graphiter 600M that is supposed to work as well.

Phil,

Don't get me wrong. I'm confident that the problems that I've seen on the left Coast and Bill on the Right (corner, sorta) is Marketing. Many dealers are "recomending" these for the very applications that they're causing the problems on. It would be interesting to hear what goes on in their official "certification" or what their reps as a whole are telling dealers the application (fish wise) for these rods is. The Fred Hall Show is next week, so maybe i'll stop by as the average consumer and ask what they say about them for Long Range.

They more than obviously have their place. They felt good enough to me that I was ready to bet the Bank there for a time. Pushing on the top of the Rod at a show however doesn't simulate the Fish that everybody here is inquiring about these for. Again, the power to weight is amazing. I just didn't try to "buckle" the thing, which maybe I should before I got myself all excited. Most of the guys that have inquired to US on the blanks have been chasing 200lb. Tuna. The rep at the ICAST Show did/said nothing to tell me otherwise.

Don't take offence here! lol It isn't meant that way.

Mark Griffin
[]
C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California

I fully understand. I've heard the same thing in previous posts about the rods being limp noodles or not being good for anything. They work, but I think you are correct in that marketing has probably overstated what they should be used for. There are jigging rods here in Japan for big yellowfin, but they are pretty hefty sticks.

It would be cool to be able to buy the blanks, but wonder what Shimano folks have up their sleeve as far as certification. Sounds pretty crazy to me.

Phil

Phil the fishermen in my area started bringing the Trevallas into my shop showing me the 200 # labels and asking me to build them some of these wonderful rods for "big" fish. I find that task to be impossible.

I did some searching and found the site that describes the vertical jigging techniques. I also noted that one of the primary reasons for the development of the technique was the "depletion of quality large pelagics" in the area due to overfishing. They explained that the use of the system of jigs would increase the chance of hooking up with a large tuna in deeper water using the violent jigging with the long string mirrors. I saw spinning reels and a guy putting out one whale of a lot of work to operate the stuff with the rod tucked under the arm. Shimano is marketing their stuff using the terminology of stuff like the high end Japaneese Swords that sell for $ 2,500 or more.

I looked at a lot of video clips of the stuff in use and it did look highly interesting to say the least. I noted that props were in motion on most of the clips that indicated boats were going to the fish instead of the fish coming to the boat. A couple of charter captains in Venice, Louisiana are booking trips with guys from Japan coming over to fish around platforms in the Gulf. Our fish stock is huge and hookups are highly plentiful. Their catch rate is extremely low due to break offs on structures.

These rods do not seem to be the ticket to winch a large grouper or snapper from under a submerged oil platform. A 150 # yellowfin from an anchored boat or a party boat with multiple hookups is also highly problematic. Over a year ogo on a number of board users asked questions trying to find out how this stuff could apply to the fishing styles we employ. I really would like to know the specifics of how and when you use your jigging equipment - I would still move in that direction if good information on the correct use was available. Maybe you should consider writing an article and submitting it to Tom for Rodmaker consideration.

I made a board post over a year ago asking the same exact questions that opened this thread. Doesn't look like to me that a lot of progress has been made in the affirmative for these style rods.

Thanks for your comment above. I understand your position and respect it highly. I hope you do not end up firing weapons from your ship in our direction!





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2007 11:27AM by Bill Stevens.

The Japanese style of vertical jigging is interesting. I am an equal opportunity kind of guy, I'll use anything given the right situation. I'll fly fish the streams, and I won't hesitate to pin a live sardine on and throw it out.

I think a big part of the problem is the fact that Shimano sells the rods labeled for 200lb. It's stupid, even here the heaviest jigging rods are only rated for probably up to 80lb. And those are rarely used around my area of Japan as the fish just aren't big enough to warrant such a rod.

I've used my lighter jigging rods, with quality reels such as the trinidad or Accurate 197, and have fished side by side with friends who were commericial hook and lining amberjack and grouper in the Middle Grounds off Florida. I went along for the ride. I landed just as many grouper, porgies, and AJ's on the Japanese jigs and lighter rods as they did on 6/0's with straight 100lb, and had much more fun doing it. The lighter tackle and thinner braided line meant I could reach bottom with less weight. Now, there were only two other anglers on a 32 foot Sabalo, I had no worries of cutting the guy next to me off, and the grouper were fairly small (less than 10lbs). When it came time to pin on a live bait the size of my hand for 30lb grouper, I was picking up the heavy rod just to be safe as well.

You have to have the right tool for the job. It's kind of like fly fishing. Some folks want to only catch fish with a fly rod. It doesn't matter if there is a better option available, say you can catch 10 fish on live bait to one on a fly, they'll still want to use the fly rod. It takes others to tell them no, you can't bring your fly rod on the long range boats, otherwise I bet someone would.

In my own humble opinion, there are heavy jigging rods, but I wouldn't use them around really heavy structure (such as oil platforms) on grouper I don't think. The lines are too thin and get cut off too easy. Tuna around oil platforms/anchor lines, sounds like a good place to break out the 50 wides to me. Put me in open water over oilfish that are 400-500feet down, smaller grouper, amberjack, yellowtail, skipjack or yellowfin to 10/15lbs, and and I'm breaking out my jigging stick given the option. Fishing deep water though for oilfish, if one person hooks up, we all reel up (may be four other anglers fishing the back of a boat.) Oilfish get large, I've landed them to about 70lbs, and you will cut your neighbor off if not careful.

Even here in Japan, there are guys who have made a lot of captain's angry by not bringing the right tool for the job, grouper fishing with rods that are too light and getting broke off on structure. Now go amberjack or yellowtail fishing, where the fish are halfway to the bottom with no structure around, and the same captain could probably care less if you jigged. Other boats I've been on for tuna had the live bait folks in the front of the boat, and those jigging in the back.

I'm not the expert on jigging, but do have some fairly decent friends who are very big on jigging here in Japan. A couple have done fairly well, one recently opened his own tackleshop, strictly jigging. It has it's usefullness to be certain, but I personally wouldn't use them in some of your situations, even with the heavier rods they have here.

Take care,
Phil

out here on the east coast they let the guys jigging on the front and the bait guys on the back, a little different everywhere......again these rods seem like they are useful for flounder and stuff around here...but the bigger fish we use bigger rods

NERBS