I was just told by a friend who will be learning to fly fish that he was told by the person who is going to teach him that it will be easier to learn with a 5 wt than a 4 wt (same blank line Batson Forecast 865-2 vs 864-2) He has 2 4 wt blanks and was told it would be harder to learn with them. They will be fishing for Bluegill (Bream??) Doesn't make sense to me but I'm not a fly fisherman (yet?)

He reads this board so how about some input from you guys that know!!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2007 02:53PM by Mike Barkley.

Mike

Shouldnt make a difference. If the rod is lined properly any rod should feel the same. I can feel my 7 ft 0 weight load the same as one of my 9 weights.One difference is casting in a wind, larger line weights can be easier to control. But seeing as he is fishing for bluegill (pit or pond?) that shouldnt be an issue. The difference between a 4 and 5 is minimal IMHO as I have several of both in different lengths.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2007 04:55PM by Scott Bazinet.

The teacher may think the student will find it easier to feel the rod load with a heavier line. If that's his reasoning then he could use a 5 weight line on the 4 weight rod.

Frankly I don't see the need to go to the expense of even for a cheap line. Most fly fishing is done within a short casting range; especially on a 4wt rod.

I learned to cast on a 4wt rod and line by a highly qualified instructor. It was even a windy day. It didn't deter him or me. Is it possible this teacher is not really a skilled instructor?

If I am overlooking something here it won't be the first or last time.

Did he say that since a 5 wt will be easier than a 4 wt, a 6 wt will be easier still... why not just build a 9 wt and he'll be making 100 ft double hauls in no time. As long as the blank and line are of decent quality, I don't think there should be a problem (I have two forecast fly rods that I built, 3 and 4 wt 2 piece models, and my three year old willl learn on them this summer). One line up to help feel the rod load may be OK, but is by all measures not a requirement. Whether 5 wt combo or 4 wt combo - no difference if matched well. That's my 2 cents, but somebody may think it was overpriced.

Bill Webster

Forecast F865-2 5 8' 6" 2 4.90 63

But then again you could forget about AFTMA, CCS test the 864-2 for your friend and balance his rod up properly. As David said he will be casting short so go ELN plus ??
Just a thought

If your customer already has the two 4 wt. fly blanks, by all means build on them. Then have your customer take lessons from a certified instructor with the 4 weights. I could teach him enough to fly fish but then I would be teaching him all of my bad habits therefore a certified instructor would be better.

I agree that a heavier line weight might be easier to use, but I am curious as to the instructor's preferrence. I don't know if I would change rods or line weights to satisfy an instructor's preference without good reason.
Your customer/friend should take the time to find out why, and work on a resolution that allows him to maximize his learning experience with the tools he has, rather than forcing him to move to a new rod.
The principles are the same, regardless of line weight.

What realy matters here guys is the customer/freind needs to learn on the weight that he will be useing to fish with. I have tought my 4foot tall 5 year old son to cast with a 9 foot six weight St Croix SCII becouse that is the size that I use most often. Now as for going down to a lighter weight and or shorter rod there will of couse have to be some practice for any of us. My point I guess is to get the basics down and practice practice practice. This time of year my wife likes to dis own me, Becouse right now when the rivers frose over I practice my fly casting while practiceing my turkey calling with my mouth reeds.

With those two blanks it wont matter, line them properly and they'll work well enough for learning (anything 8' and over with a moderate to moderate fast action). The 5wt will be able to easily cast some larger nymphs and streamers but you're not going to notice that when your learning to cast. If you're going to go after bluegill and other warmer water species I would personally opt for a 6wt which is better suited for the more wind resistant flies that tend to be thrown (poppers and such).

Perhaps the instructor feels he, the instructor, can cast better with the 5wt and dosen't wish to look inadequate during the lesson.
Herb Ladenheim

there will effectively be no difference in learning on either as far as I'm concerned, all things equal excetpt 4 vs 5

the instructor may think that a 5 wt is better suited to the fishing he wants to do, which is a different debate all together.

Mike....... you have just got to take someone up on thier offer to take you fly fishing. If you have the coordination to make an epoxy ramp, you can learn to cast that fly rod. Go for it!

When learning it should not make much difference other that what the wind (with heavier wt flys/poppers) is going to do to you as stated before. I like a 3 or 4wt for brookies and sm stream trout in a sm stream, the trouble with bluegills is; they can get big and have a lot of side surface area, plus the fact that they usually are around weeds and can easily get into them, thus need to be draged out of them, I prefer a 5 wt. outfit for this speciifc species

Joshua, It that is the case, I agree with you. One of my good fishing buddies asked me to build him a rod to fish another friend's stocked pond for bream and bass. Not wanting to spend an arm and a leg for a rod, my friend asked me to build him something "affordable." I have chosen a Tiger Eye 6/7 blank. with a DBI of 6.6/65. And thinking along the lines of Steve Wilson, where he makes a very good point, my friend can cast popping bugs for bream which will also catch bass. This rod will cost my friend $65 for the parts, dinner for my wife and I at a good Italian restaurant, a weekend at his beach house, and a fishing trip. All of the parts I got from Blackdog Tackle-good service.

The difference between the two RX6 blanks is very, very minor. If an instructor says that he/she can't teach and/or the student can't learn using a 4wt, you should find a new instructor. That's just ridiculous.

I've taught people with their personal rods from 2wt to 10wt. Sure, you have to make some adjustments in timing, but the basic structure of the stroke is the same. Just my 2 cents.



Scott Kinney
The Longest Cast Fly Rods
[www.thelongestcast.com]

As a FFF Certified Casting Instructor and 15 years of teaching flycasting with hundreds of happy successful students, I can promise you that what will will make a difference is the use of a 7 or 8 wt compared to a 4 or 5 wt. when teaching outdoors. When teaching outdoors, a 7 or an 8 weight is optimum-hands down everyday of the week and twice on Sunday! But, if the lesson or instruction is indoors, the differnece between a 4 or a 5 weight in very very minuscule.

My advice is to learn with a 7 or 8 if outside and even inside if the guy has a 7 or 8 wieght rod. If not, hopefully the instructor will have rods with the "CORRECT" flyline for effective instruction. The wrong flyline will be a disaster for both the student and instructor.

Just my humble .02
Paul

learn to tie nets (much easier) like was said a 4 wt or a 5 wt go the whole 9 yards build a 9wt and he`ll really let rip cant really see much in it better to find out why a 4 has been "specked" surly an decent instructor can teach anyone with anything ( i was shown the basics on a 12` " carp rod")

learning to cast has more to do with length than line weight (pending wind of course as was said earlier). The shorter rods are not quite as easy to figure out as the longer rods at first. Also, super "fast" action rods it is a bit less intuitive of a feel for rod loading, so I would say a moderate to mod-fast (I know, eye of the beholder type deal) blank, say 8'6" or 9' (yes, these forecasts are in the mod category to me).

Well, that being said, let me play devils advocate. Sounds like he is going to learn on the water. Depending on how they are fishing for gills, they may actually throw a decent sized popper with some wind resistance. In that case, a 5wt would be better suited for it, though a 4wt would be fine, a 5wt will give a little bit more confidence to the novice caster if there is wind involved though its not necessarily needed.

I'd say build the 4wt, think about maybe a 5 wt also. if you can afford both of em, get both. if you can't, go with whats cheaper. Odds are you'll get addicted and then fill out your arsenal of rods eventually anyways.

I have absolutely NO IDEA what ALLEN is talking about, and don't know what "specked" means. Since his remarks sound sarcastic, unintelligible, and derogatory of my experience, I will choose to ignore him.

I also agree with Steven about rod choice as well. These may be the most important factors when learning how to cast. The Forecasts are in the moderate catagory to me too.

Paul

Paul, I am a little confused about Allen's response myself, but I don't think he was directing his comments about your post. I think when he says "Specked" , I'm pretty sure he was saying "spec'd" or specified, as in specifying a 4 wgt.