What's the reason for placing the 1st guide 4" from the tip on lighter rods? Most of the charts I've seen recommend 4.5 or 5" for 5 weight fly rods. It seems like moving the guides closer would increase weight at the tip of the rod, making it recover more slowly.

Curtis,
I think that you hit the nail on the head. The closer to the tip the first guide is the lower the resonant frequency of the rod will be which means that the slower it will respond. If you look closely at the stiffness profile of most blanks, the way they flex, you will notice that the first few inches do not flex much at all. If the first few inches are not flexing there is no strain in this area and therefore no need for a guide to distribute the stress.
Where the first guide needs to be for line control is another issue but again if the rod is not flexing in the first few inches then I see no reason for a guide to be there for line control either.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2007 12:27PM by Emory Harry.

I place the first guide anywhere from 4" to 5" from the tip top depending on the action of the blank, 4" for fast action, 4.5" for medium fast, and 5" for medium. I disagree with Emory: there is definite bend in the first few inches, especially when casting aggressively or bringing a fish too close to the fisher. I like to distribute stress as evenly as possible throughout the most fragile part of the blank

Jim,
I do not have any argument with where you are placing the first guide but with most blanks there is very little deflection in the first few inches regardless how you deflect the blank. The stiffness profile of the blank does not change if you deflect it dynamically by casting or statically by just pulling down on the tip. It is the same regardless how you deflect the blank. In fact as you put more and more of a load on the blank you will notice that where it deflects most moves toward the butt of the blank and the tip portion tends to actually deflect or bend less with larger loads on the blank.

I think one reason for keeping the first guide close to the top is to minimize the risk of breaking the rod at the top if it is inadvertley angled past 90 degrees away from the load and stressed.

Bill,
You will not break the rod in the first few inches by high sticking the rod. You will break it back several more inches where it is flexing more. The highest stress is where the highest strain (most flex) is. High sticking usually results in the rod breaking more like 8 to 18 inches from the tip well past the first guide.

I did a static test this morning on the 8.5' 4 wt Forecast that I'm building. It doesn't bend at all in the first 5 inches. So, I decide to place the guide a bit farther down.

It's a weird blank. It seems to bend mostly at certain nodes, remain straight in short sections, and make a smooth curve in a few spots. Also, it easily flexes 1/2-2/3 of the way down the blank. That surprises me after reading the CCS ratings and H&H's description. I'm afraid that I won't like this rod very much...

Over the years I've learned that Emory's advise is right on the money. If you flex your blank at the "fishing position" (line coming off at 90 degrees to the lower section), you'll see what he's talking about the initial tip section being rather straight with the flex being further down the blank. But if you stretch a string from the tip to the butt section and make it look like a shephards cane at the top (aka high sticking), this could mislead you into to thinking you have to space your tip guides closer together.

Long ago I built a Sage XP 10' 7 wt and used their spacing recomendations. The 1st guide was 5 7/8" and I tried my best to figure out why it shouldn't be closer. But when the blank was flexed from a 90 degree pull, the first 12" or so were relatively straight and the major bend was in the 18"-20" range. And becasue the guides on this rod spaced a bit further from the tip section than on my other rods, it actually cracks like a whip!

That's exactly what I think Tim. I've static tested many 6 to 6 1/2' M spinning rods this winter and ended up placing the first guide at 5 inches or more. No matter how much weight I put in my bucket there is not much flex in the first 5 inches at all. In fact, i would place the first guide even farther from the tip but it looks weird.

That's just what I've found.

Chuck