There is some discussion about selling rods in the "rod pricing" thread started below by David Scranton. After reading the post by Jon Edwards and the replies to him as well as the subject of what a "custom rod" is or isn't. I thought I would tell the story of how I started building rods, when I started selling them, and how I learned a couple lessons one day on the charter boat "Happy Man" fishing in the Santa Monica Bay.

I started building rods in the mid 80's. Then, LOOKS was everything when it came to fishing rods. (probably still is with most) At least with me and the crowd I ran with (we had no clue what a GOOD rod really was) and I saw a couple SWEEET inshore rods with these really cool thread wraps and turks head knots and I HAD to have one! Well, went into the local tackle shop and picked one off the rack and saw the price tag and about fell over! When I asked why it was over $200 all the guy said was "it's a custom". He failed to mention it was built on a Sabre blank and had the finest components but if he had I wouldn't have known what he was talking about anyway. The best rod in the world I thought was an "ugly-stik"! It was then I knew if I wanted one I would have to build one myself!

I inquired at several tackle shops about how & where could I learn to build rods and especially how to do those SWEEET thread designs but all they did was snicker and say "it takes years to learn" I almost gave up until a friend of mine who knew some limited basics showed be how to wrap guides on a make shift hand wrapper made with coat hangers for supports and a book as a tension device with a spool of thread in a cup. If I remember correctly I also found a tackle shop
that sold Flex-Coat products, Gudebrod thread, and guides but no blanks.

After tearing apart a couple factory rods with a basic diamond wraps 1/2 done with thread and 1/2 done with paint I figured out how the diamonds were done. Well, I was off & running! I started stripping the guides off my rods that had grooves or rust cleaned'em up and wrapped them back where they came off and put nice pretty diamond wraps on and used mom's "Hard as Nails" as a finish!. LOL! (until I took a rod into the tackle shop to show off and the guy told me about Flex-Coat epoxy!) Then I found one of the Flex-Coat fancy crosswrap pattern booklets (the one with the fish pattern) in another tackle shop! YES!! YAHOOO!! HEAVEN!! I spent all summer and then some learning how to wrap and finish by stripping and rewrapping any rod I could get my hands on. I must have rewrapped (not rebuilt) 20 - 30 rods. I did use NEW guide sets on some though but they went where the old ones came off from.

After the first 10 or so my rods looked pretty darn good and I got many compliments from friends who wanted one but I was not satisfied with my thread skills and would either give a rod as a present or if I had used a new set of guides I would sell it for the price of the guides.

I started getting so many compliments and requests for my rewrapped rods and not knowing any better about what a TRUE custom built QUALITY rod was I really thought of myself as a "custom rod builder" still not as good as those rods I first saw 6mo ago but pretty darn good! I sold quite a few rods with fancy wraps and I was quite proud of myself!

That is until I got Advanced Custom Rod Building by Dale P. Clemens! After reading that book over and over I learned that a quality rod is far more than fancy thread wraps! I also learned something about blanks and tapers and discovered manufactures like Sabre and Contender. I really felt like a jerk thinking how cool I was making those really nice looking (not as good as I thought) rods with poor guide spacing, not splined, ect.

The proof in the pudding was after I built my very first rod from the ground up with a nice blank, splined, cork tape grip (deck hand style) stress tested and properly chosen and placed guides. Of course that rod was night & day different to fish than any of the others I had used up till then. Revelation!

About a year later a friend I hadn't seen in ages showed up and wanted to go fishing. He had with him an old rod I had rewrapped and was raving about how it was the BEST rod he ever fished with and how he loved the "flag" butt wrap and said it was the envy of all the other guys he fishes with. This rod was a solid fiberglass rod with the old wooden handle with a ferruled seat. Very heavy in weight very slow action and not enough guides. The butt guide was to close and to small for the reel he used. It was however, a white blank with red, white, & blue guide wraps and a 12in US flag crosswrap! He also used it for tossing jigs to Yellows, Cudas, and anything else that would chase a jig! It was the worst possible rod to use for that application other than a trolling rod with rollers! HE LOVED IT!! So anyway, I tried to get it back from him by educating him on the best types of blanks for what he uses it for but he would have no part of it.

So we go fishing on the Happy Man charter boat. He brags all day to anyone who would listen about his "fancy custom wrapped" rod and how he's gonna win the jackpot for sure with it. Funny though, he never mentioned to anyone that I was the one who built it. Still, I was sooooo embarrassed when I heard the 2 deckhands talking about my friend and his rod. The comment was made " it sure is pretty but what a piece of !

I learned that day how really good it feels to have made someone that happy using something I built even if I wasn't happy with what I did. Over 20 years later and I bet he still loves that rod if he still has it. I also learned just how bad it can feel when someone that you respect, truthfully downgrades your work in public. Man! That especially when you know there right!

The best way to avoid have that happen to you is learn everything you can first and then apply that knowledge with confidence. You cant please everyone but if you can please yourself nobody else matters. (reminds me of a song!)

You know what though? My friend DID WIN THE DANG JACKPOT!! I asked him later why he didn't tell everyone that I wrapped the rod and he said " I wanted you to be able to fish without being bugged all day by people wanting you to build one for them! I wasn't building rods for sale anymore and he knew it. What a friend!!

That was a very long time ago but I will never forget it.

If your going to buid rods, especially for others, weather it be for gifts or sales, take the time to learn the funtions BEFORE the arts.







Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2007 07:52AM by Tom Kirkman.

The PRECISE reason I build rods to give-away and not sell......I make a functional and reasonably attractive rod now.....But I am nowhere near satisfied with the finer points of my "fit and finish" techniques to have the nerve to actually SELL one of my creations.

Most of my rod creations so far have been rewraps or rebuilds of blanks from wherever I find them....Heck, I even have blanks and components from my local dumps. I am only JUST finishing my first rod created from scratch and all new components and have run into the snag of not having the know-how to do decent epoxy ramps......That rod goes on the to-do rack until I am satisfied that I can make the ramps happen and not screw up.

The performance and design elements are there, at least I would like to think so, but until my fit and finish improve I will maintain my amateur standing.

Am I being to (bleep) retentive? Probably.......But I am pretty picky about my photography so there you are.



Derek L. McMaster
Rohnert Park, CA

Born to Fish, FORCED to Work

I've been building rods going on two years now. I spent a considerable amount of time trying to learn on my own from all the books and videos I had purchased. I also began reading RBO everyday as another tool to learn by. But being more of a visual person, I just could not grasp the concept of rod building on my own. Finally one day I got up the nerve up to contact Raymond Adams, who I only knew from RBO, to see if he was willing to give me some private lessions. Luckily for me, Raymond lived about 25 miles away. I offered to pay him to teach me his tips and tricks on rod building. Raymond refused to except any money and kind enough to come over to my house, which he did on several occassion. The very first afternoon, Raymond taught how to wrap guides, install handles, reel seats and how to do simple diamond and chevron butt wraps. . I learned more in that one afternoon then all the months I studied on my own. Just being able to watch him and practice under his skilled guidence made all the difference in the world. All of a sudden everything he was showing me just made since to me. I immediately began to understand everything I had read and viewed from all my instructional material.

I still read and re-read all my books, re- watch my DVD's and read RBO every single day to learn as much as I can. Because of all of this I am now very satisfied with the custom rods I am building. Everyone who sees my work wants to place orders. Even when I say they would cost $1000 I still have people who still want me to build them a rod. I put a lot of effort into my work and if it is not perfect and I am not satisfied with something, I'll strip it down over and over until I am 100% happy with it. Thus I put a lot of time into each rod which makes it hard to figure out a price to sell them. I have decided for now to only build rods for my family and my closest and dearest friends. I get so much satisfaction out of giving my rods away that for now I have no desire to sell to the public. I just love the expressions on their faces when the look at my work and ask, how did you do that?

Each rod I build seems to come out better and better each time. I put a lot of thought into my rods and I like them to stand out from other rods especially factory rods. At some point I'm sure that I will start selling my rods to the public, since I unexpectively had to retire from my real job at a some what young age and I have a true passion to build rods the rest of my life.

Someday I hope my rods will be at the level of the great rod builders on this site, and there are anumder of you I admire. I love seeing the rods on this site that are not only perfectly built performance wise, but also look like a piece of art work. I feel if your rod stands out, and catches the publics eye, it will be much easier to sell your work. Rods like Terry Henson build, with his inlays and rare exotic feathers sell themselves. For now I'm taking it slow and easy but I am very serious about my future and I have a number of ideas I hope to incorperate into my work to make them even more one of a kind. I hope someday, when someone is using one of my rods on a party boat, or charter, that my rod will draw the same attention that Raymond's rod did.

In closing, I have a lot to learn about rod building but even in the short time I have been building rods, I truely believe my rods already out perform any of the high end factory rods. I base this on the fact that I have a number of hih end factory rods and my rods out perform all of them. I've also looked at the quality of work on a number of other brands of high end rods and find the workmanship poor compared to the craftman I see on custom build rods, such as my own. I assume most rod builder on RBO who has been buildin for any lenght of time has also noticed this too when comparing thier rods to factory built rods.

Thanks again Raymond for the time and effort you freely gave to me. It's goods to know you are always there if I have a question or need help. I still own you one of my cutom lures that I promised you. I will make you a very special one when I get my lath and airbrush system up and running.

Rich Matranga
Folsom, California

yeah.. raymond has helped me a lot.. each time i post a qn, raymond, without fail, will always answer my questions.. and will also send me some tutorials to guide me along..

sadly, we live in different parts of the world, else i will be able to learn directly from him..

-
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day..
Teach a man to fish, he'll be broke!

There are some old addages that come to mind after reading the above posts, "There is no accounting for taste" "Ignorance is BLISS" "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" " Colorfull lures sell more fisherman than fish" "Confidance is a key component in fishing" and Confidance sounds like it cures a world of hurt if wrapped in a pretty package.

For Beginners, get the fundimentals down, refine your appication skills, remember there are a few different ways to skin a cat, when in doubt try another. practice, experiment and stick with something that works. I do 40 things now that I didn't do when I started building rods, 20 years ago it was 20 things

The best thing about this Forum are the many fine folks who are not only willing to offer well intended advice but are actually eager to do so. I have yet to find another web site focused upon any topic that can even approach the level of cooperation as is found here on a daily basis.

Raymond Adams has been an increasingly active member of the Forum. His tireless sharing of tutorials has benefitted many rod builders; myself included. From the first time we communicated personally Ray and I have been keeping an open chat link every day we are both at home. It's great to have a buddy so available to compare notes with.

My only regret is that Ray will not be able to attend the ICRBE. It would have been our first chance to meet face to face after months of chatting almost every day. We had planned to share a room at the Radisson. I plan to take as many pics as possible to give Ray a good idea of the Expo.

It is so nice to see how the good efforts of a man are appreciated and actually benefit others.

There are many like Ray in this regard. They set a good standard for all. We all started as beginners at one time or another. Someone has given of their own expertise and hopefully their generosity will encourage us to do the same.

There is so much to be gained by participating in this way. It is especially beneficial to the future of the craft when we reach out to the true beginners. They represent the future. All the good work of Tom Kirkman and others depends upon the influx of more beginners to ensure that this craft will be able to sustain the supply chain that is required to meet the ever growing creative avenues that are constantly being explored. We each have a way to give something back that will increase the overall good of the craft. I encourage all to follow in the steps of those like Ray who have made the dissemination of sound rod building information a part of their life. There is great satisfaction in sharing what one has learned well.

Dave

You too Dave?

My dad isn't complete unless I chat with Ray a bit......Now if I can only talk Doc into it......lol.

Derek L. McMaster
Rohnert Park, CA

Born to Fish, FORCED to Work