This may seem like a dumb question, but I am going to ask it anyway. On most quality factory musky rods the first guide is a #20. In reading some guide spacing charts the first guide is a #20. I have also read about and used double foot Fuji Alconite guides for musky rods that seem to work pretty well. These are spiral wrapped of course.

Here is my question. Does the first guide HAVE to be #20? Fuji Alconites do not come in #20 (double foot low ride style) so I have been starting with a #16 and going from there.

Anyone use Alconites on musky rods? If so, anyone have any problems with first guide being a #16.

Thank you for your patience.

Wondering from Wisconsin,
Buzz

Buzz,

I have used a # 16 with good results. Some guys want as small as possible. I once built one with a spiral using a #12. That's what the guy wanted. I tinkered with it and it casted well. Most want what St Croix uses, but you don't need them that big depending on where you place them.

Ron

Buzz,

I use musky blanks as swimbait rods (for bass) and use #12 as the first guide. I'm throwing anything from 2-8 oz swimbaits on 20# to 30# mono. All of them work like a champ. I think most of the charts you looked at are carryover from the days when most companies used "oversized guides". Your own results are way more important to consider than some silly chart.

I eyeball my guides before static testing and get closer to "correct" than any charts I have looked at for a starting point. I consider 99% of the charts a waste of time.

The butt guide size is determined by the height of the frame, the distance from the reel, and the width of the reel spool. You do not want the line to get down on your hand or foregrip during a heavy load. You do not want the line having to pull in tight to the guide when at opposing ends of the reel spool.

So you would determine the necessary height by where the butt guide needs to be to for good stress distribution. From there, you choose the proper ring size based on spool width.

...............

16 should be plenty large enough, but.... Did you say Lowriders? As in Surf guides? They DO offer a 20, but I wouldn't do that if I were you. Wrong frame style for your application.

Take a look at the BMNAG's on this page ---> [] I use these on a lot of my own rods. Very light weight but strong. I have them on a number of my 20-50lb rods and fish them with Spectra.

Also, don't hang your hat on a guide spacing chart. They can be a good starting point but really over simplify the process of correct guide spacing. Unless the chart is for YOUR blank with YOUR reel, chances are it's not going to be the "correct" guide spacing to optimize your blank's efficiency.

Take a little extra time and static test your placement. You’ll be glad you did. You can read Tom’s article on the process here--> [www.rodbuilding.org]


Mark Griffin
[]
C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California

Here is a new idea on guide size that works for me every time!

I start with a set of guides eye ball them on, then static test, cast test, adjust, DONE.

My "stripper or butt guide" is always high frame the rest low frame it keeps the line off my hand and rod,

no particular reel is ever in the equations.

I have done this kind of guide placement on just about every kind of blank you can imagine.

Strait or spiral it works with every rod I build and you can change the reel from one kind to another with out any worries.

I very rarely go bigger than a 16 bumper.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2006 02:10PM by Tim Hurst.

Tim,

I'm sure your method works (as will any method) but will it give the optimum performance?? The reel that will be used plays an important role in gaining the most efficeient guide placement for any type rod. I don't understand why you would want to use a high frame large guide for the bumper. The whole purpose of the bumper guide is to keep the line from rubbing the blank, NOT to direct the line in any way. Some don't even use a bumber guide. By using a large, high guide, I would thank that you would be adversely affecting the line path and taking the line away from it's natural path

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I think Tim was using the wrong terminology in his post.
I assume ( at least I hope ) he meant to say "stripper or butt guide"
instead of bumper.

Reel type & size should always be taken into consideration when
setting up guide size & spacing.

That being said, if one builds mostly the same type & style of rods, after
a while it becomes apparent which guides work best for that application
and testing becomes almost moot as the reel selection would also be
about the same in MOST cases.


Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Thanks Ray, (I'll send you the same email I sent Mike) yes I meant stripper guide, sorry didn't mean to cause confusion.
Please reread my post, I have never had any casting or line problems of any kind.
I use a reel when I static test and cast test. But if I sell the rod and someone puts another reel on it other than the one I used, they don't have any problems.
Using the high guide is to keep the line off the rod or my hand, it is not intended to direct the line any other way.
Mike I sent you a personal email.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2006 02:06PM by Tim Hurst.

Thanks to all for the info. I thought #16 would work fine, just wanted some reassurance from the Board.

Buzz

I'll use a 16.

Most of my Muskie clients use Abu 6500 reels which are fairly wide. I typically have an easier time setting up the rod (spiral wrap) when I use a size 20 guide. But, as you said, that's not always an option. Then I use the biggest guide possible and do quite a bit of test casting to make sure I get the guide in the correct spot.


........................

Better to have and not need than to need and not have.