Robert,
"Everyone take a cold shower." That gave me the best laugh that I have had in days and your point was well made.

MIke,

How do you tell time at night, I mean without the sun to cast a shadow on the old sundial? (Yes, I'm kidding.)

Emory,

I weighed my wrapped guides and some done with the threadless "wraps" and the threadless versions were lighter. Of course, I have to qualify that statement by saying it was very little. I think over the whole rod I found a difference of 20 grains or something. But as I've said many times now, how much you save, if anything, will depend on how long your current thread wraps are and how much epoxy you normally apply. If you're already doing the minimum in these areas then I don't think you'll see much difference.

.........

Now for an idea. In contrast to a colorful, flashing, decorated custom rod, what about a truly "stealth" rod. Split grip, RF Lite reel seat, no forgrip. Simple Spiral with threadless guide wraps. Black blank with cork, charcoal reel seat and black framed guides. It would be the absollute plainest looking rod you could possibly build. It might also catch the eye of a lot of fishermen looking for something a little different

...........

Tom, .....now THATS funny!!! with perspective.






NERB that types with a bar of Ivory soap in his mouth.

Tom,
Yes, you might even use black EVA instead of cork. I would not spiral wrap it though. That would take away from the stealth affect. The fish would notice that right away.

If your threadless wraps weighed less than wrapped guides then you clearly must have used less Perma Gloss because the Perma Gloss weighs more than the thread. If you used less Perma Gloss then the question becomes, is it as strong. I just looked up my notes from the experiments that I did about a year ago for the article in RodMaker and the epoxy was almost 3 times as heavy, for a typical guide, as the thread using A thread. That is naturally somewhat dependent on who is applying the epoxy or Perma Gloss.

Tom,

Sounds like you are talking rocket science when rod building is far from it. It is a craft and there must be a place for one to display one's art form.

Anthony Lee

I agree, and that can come in many forms. It can come from thread, it can come from wood. It can come from fine fit and finish. It can also come from carrying out a design that is intended to provide the most efficient tool possible for the job at hand.

Art is not always grandiose nor even terribly obvious. Sometimes great art can be found in simplicity itself.

...............

Personally, I'd like to thank Bill for being generous enough to share this technique with the rodbuilding community. As is his right, he very easily could have just kept it to himself and his customers but, like other generous folks who contribute to this board and to RM magazine, he generously put it out there for all of us.

Whenever something as out-of-the ordinary as this comes up, there will naturally be those who love it, hate it, and elsewhere in between. I'm sure Bill knew that going into it.

I see potential in this technique for certain applications... another arrow in the quiver of techniques that can be used to acheive a given objective. Just as the spiral wrap won't ever become the standard for production rods, neither will this ever replace the traditional wrapped guide.

With that said, I would love to see some numbers that compare it's strength and weight with a traditionally wrapped guide. Even without such data, I think it's clear that the technique will be very well suitable for light tackle applications.

Thanks again... I look forward to more on this one.

Erik

Bill, what does one of your split grip spinning rods with threadless guides, foam arbors, etc weigh in at? Just curious. I've been weighing rods and just went out to the garage and weighed a rod that I finally decided was a dog - 4.9 ounces! Ouch. I never liked the rod and I think I know why now.

Chuck

The 6'6" finished rod that Bill sent me, and which will be given away at the Rod Building Expo in February, weighs 3.3 ounces. I just weighed it. 3.3 ounces.

Of course, the largest percentage of the weight in any rod will be the blank. So just a weight figure alone doesn't necessarily tell you that much.


..............

Michael: Chowder / Gumbo

Your post of a picture of the stark white CTS with invisible guide wraps provided significant inspiration to the origin of this concept. Your previous post on this thread requesting indemnifacation from consequential damages is accepted.

The American Tackle 842 Matrix listed weight is 2.2 oz.

6' 6" Casting Rod

There are some comments on the Photo Board about single foot guides that might be interesting.

[www.rodbuilding.org]




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2006 11:50AM by Bill Stevens.

Bill,

THANKS for being generous in sharing. . Personally, I LOVE the look of the wrapless guides.

However, I'm wondering if it is really lighter than how I normally like to wrap my guides. I use Pearsall silk and then put two coats of permagloss, just enough to cover the silk. I can still feel the ridges of the wrap - thus trusting that the wrap gives sufficient strength to hold the guides and the barest of finish to hold the wrap in place and prevent the threads being worn through. It's a much thinner finish than the normal commercial finish. In this case, it seems that the wrapless method is actually heavier?

Curious.

Thanks,
Mo

Mo you are correct. I made a mistake using reduced weight in my description as a marketing tool when communicating with skilled rodbuilders. What is presented in the magazine is distinctly lighter that a typical commercial thread and two part epoxy finish attachment. The technique provides a tool to get the effect of the suspended guide with nothing on top. I tried to sell thread wrapped Perma Gloss finished rods and they were not accepted due to the different nature of the surface appearance of Perma Gloss. Those ridges you refer too in the thread when applying Perma Gloss indicate that you have used the product correctly - I find that surface is not a marketable one. I tip my hat to anyone can use silk to wrap guides.

Thanks Bill for taking time to respond. REALLY appreciate it.

One follow up question. For multi piece blanks where the ferrules need to be reinforced, does your method give it reinforcement similar to thread wrap to prevent split/cracked ferrules?

Thanks again,
Mo

I have no idea but I would doubt it - I would think that a thread wrap on a ferrule would be the proper thing to do.