As many of you have noticed, the latest edition of Rodmaker magazine contains a brief announcement that I am starting a new organization called Rod Builders International (RBI). I have received some very encouraging email from those who receive their copies of Rodmaker earlier than I do and I would like to thank everyone for their comments.

Since we've let the cat out of the bag, it seems like a good idea to provide you with a little more detail. Things are not ready for prime time quite yet, but my intentions are as follows.

RBI will do collective marketing and advertising for custom rod building and professional rod builders. The custom rod building industry in general will benefit from these marketing efforts as we educate the fishing public. We will invite inquiries from those who read the advertisements and want to know more or want to order a custom built fishing rod. Those rod builders who join RBI as members will benefit directly from the advertising as potential clients are identified and matched to professionals with the abilities to fulfill the orders.

RBI will establish a collection of best practices and continuing education programs for rod builders who are members of RBI. Membership is open to all rod builders; professional, hobby or beginning builders. Initially, RBI will concentrate on activities in support of professionals, but all can learn and benefit from membership. RBI is also committed to developing a collection of Best Business practices to help members who are practicing professionals develop their respective businesses to the fullest potential. Seminars and classes aimed at the professional rod builder and business owner are planned.

A new web site is underway (but not yet operational) and a domain has been registered as www.rodbuildersintl.com, watch for it. I am talking with various national publications about advertisements, publishing cycles and formats all of which is doable. I could use some help identifying suitable publications in other parts of the world and/or related to salt water fishing (not much salt water in the Rockies). Advertising is not cheap, but it's not really too expensive for a collective effort. It is well worth the expense involved to elevate the public awareness of custom built fishing rods and our professional image.

Information will need to be collected from members of RBI to populate a database of rod builder expertise. In addition, information needs to be collected from potential clients to adequately describe the custom fishing rod they desire. We can't hope to think of everything in the first draft, but we do hope to have a working model at the IRBE show in February.

Sorting things into members only and publicly available information categories is underway. The goal is to provide truly valuable services to members in exchange for their annual membership fee yet make plenty of information available to the public and to potential new members. Oh yes, I also have to come up with some way to keep you all informed of progress and new developments...maybe a newsletter or some sort of mailing.

I am open to any and all ideas, comments, suggestions, complaints or praise. There is much to do and now is literally the time to get your thoughts into the mix. We want to make this the best possible organization and one that is highly valued by its members. Send me email at ([email protected]) or call at 208-476-5708 (8:30-5:30 PST) or 208-476-3254 most evenings.

Thank you, again, for the encouraging comments. I would appreciate hearing from anyone with anything to say on the topic of Rod Builders International.

Joe


Joe Douglas

Anything that would elevate the art of custom rod building in the eyes of the fishing public would be welcomed and beneficial to any of us who sell our rods. A professional rod building organization is something I personally think is long overdue. Please keep us up to date with your progress. I'll be sure to stop by and speak with you in February at the Expo.

i'm pretty new to this craft of wrapping rods, say, 3 years? but i recall another organization, which still exists, which offered benefits to the rodbuilding community through membership dues, etc. i wouldn't call it a success in the way this freely accessible community at this site or others which have been created online without membership dues. in fact, i've run into much criticism about the other organization and its exclusivity. if that feeling is as widespread as i think it is, you might want to study that organization's business plan. perhaps do things differently. it sems like your plan may differ a bit.

sincerely good luck to you. and us as a community, and particularly those rodbuilders who might benefit from this as their profession.

eric
fresno, ca..

That is a very good point Eric and I think the feeling is very much widespread. But I think and I hope that what might and could be different about RBI from what Joe describes above is that this will not be a club per se, but a true organization for professional rod builders. Something to work on their behalf and that of the custom rod building art to promote sales and elevate the image of custom rods and the people who build them. My feeling is that this sort of thing has been sorely lacking. Almost every other craft type occupation has some sort of professional organization which puts a face on the craft and represents that craft to the public. I see RBI doing that for rod builders.

There are enough rod building forums and websites. We don't need another one and I do not think anybody is going to pay for the type things that they can already get for free and in spades. RodMaker already has the rod building publication market well covered. There are enough rod building shows. What takes place in NC each year would be hard to duplicate and there would be no point. So the question should be, what isn't there enough of? Or, what is still lacking? Or, what would be truly helpful to those who build and sell custom rods?

IMHO what the professional rod builder needs is an organization that can collectively market and advertise to the fishing public. It needs to be professionally run and operated. From what I read in the magazine press release, Joe would seem to have the qualifications to do the job. I look forward to progess reports with great enthusiasm.

I would suggest this as a good model to aspire to: [www.goabra.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2006 10:48PM by Richard Kuhne.

well, to play devil's advocate... ;-)

i can imagine all ventures of this sort are begun with the best of interests in mind. one must study the past to learn from it. i'm sure there's some geeky star trek quote around which might pertain to what i mean (chuckling). i hope RBI works out, seriously, please nobody take it the wrong way. but i imagine the other organization which i alluded to didn't consider themselves an official club. in fact, the name itself harkens to unionized organization for professional purposes.

i think you are right that there are "enough" rodbuilding forums and websites. we surely don't need another but some may want another, say something aimed at servicing minorities who create smallstream rods of fiberglass for golden trout between 8,000 and 9,000 feet elevation on the eastern slope of the sierra, fished with ONLY dry flies with white parachutes, upstream wearing only vintage clothing. not that i'm saying i do... just kidding, sort of. there's always room for more to meet an individual's interest. and as for rod building shows. no there isn't enough. or at least in my case, there isn't anything on the west coast the magnitude and quality of tom's internaitonal rodbuilding expo. sure, i could possibly GO to the ast coast for the show, but as a non-professional i can't afford it. rodmaker magazine does not have the rb market well covered. it's a special interest mag available only through a subscription found here. not in borders, a supermarket aisle or any standard newsstand.

i'm not a professional rodbuilder. i don't know what you guys need. education of what a custom rod can offer through marketing and advertising in all industry mags and throughout all bait and tackle shops? stickers plastered on bass boats and the rear of trucks? maybe it's RBI. if so, seriously, GREAT.

i think what i really wonder about is what richard wrote near the end of his post above. "It needs to be professionally run and opreated." absolutely. but who's going to do this? will their be some board? a president? chairman? panel? decisions made by committee or decreed fmor one person? i can smell complications. surely they could be overcome.

creating something like this is a lot of work and takes an incredible amount of planning and sacrifice. i haven't read the press release. joe seems to be a standup guy from a couple of email exchanges we've shared recently. goabra sounded great, how's it going with them so far?

i'm looking forward to reading more input to this thread as well as RBI's development. dang it, i need to resubscribe to RM!!!!!

i think i have too much time on my hands tonight everyone, forgive me.... :-)

eric
fresno, ca.

This is long overdue.Rob Building can only benefit from this if it it done correctly.In order to due that members are needed to fund the process.membership at the begining may not have many benefits and may seem like A wast of money,but in the long run when the RBI starts to have an effect on the business of rod building it will pay off.Sort of like the new company you invest in.First few years no profit but as more is learned about the path to take things change.This can not make a difference overnight but given time and support it can .Joe, I`ll support the effort.Your sucess is my sucess and will only improve the craft.I got into rod building because I search the subject,Most people that would do it dont realize they want to or even that they can.Most people dont realize that purchasing a custom rod has many benefits they dont know about.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

I was excited to read about this sort of thing happening. You might recall from past months that I've made several posts to the effect that rod builders who sell rods need something like this.

To respond to some of Eric's points I can only say that I don't think we need another magazine, forum or show. How many of these things can anybody utilize and at what point do you have market saturation? Also, can the custom rod building craft support more of these things? I don't see how.

But what we've never had is any sort of organization that actively promotes custom rods and custom rod builders to the general fishing public. I am aware of two previous organizations but they never promoted custom rod building. They were just rod building clubs set up for people who enjoy that sort of thing.

What I'm hoping to see with something like Joe's RBI is an organization that functions solely to promote custom rod building on behalf of its members. This would help drive sales, increase prices for custom rods and serve as a teaching institution for the latest techniques and methods in custom rod building for its members. This is something that custom rod building has never had and something that I think it has always needed.

One caution I would add, and from someone who has been involved in various types of clubs and organizations over the years, is that RBI stay away from too much in the way of boards, committees, overseerers, advisers, etc., etc., etc. All too often you get too many people all pulling in a different direction and nothing ever gets done and the purpose of the group becomes muddied. I really could care less who owns or operates it as long as the set goals and then do what it takes to achieve those goals on behalf of the membership. There are plenty of successful business models to pattern something like this after. Imitate the successful ones and learn from the mistakes of the failed ones.

Where do I send my membership fee?

I’ve had a few emails asking me if I’m going to be involved in the Rod Builders International organization. I’m sure some others are wondering the same thing. The answer is no, I won’t be involved beyond perhaps having RodMaker be a supporting member or sponsor on some level.

Joe called me after reading some of the articles I’d published in RodMaker detailing the various problems within the custom rod building industry and craft. We had different solutions in mind. I have always envisioned an industry trade group to promote custom rods and custom rod building. This makes a lot of sense to me, since the fortunes of the companies who manufacture and sell rod blanks and components will see their fortunes rise or fall with the influx of, or lack of, new rod builders and custom rod buyers each year. Joe said he was wanting to focus more on the custom rod builders themselves (although related companies would be welcome to participate) and offer promotion and education for those actively involved in rod building.

I don’t see a trade group forming now or in the immediate future due to industry apathy (these companies don’t even support the RodMaker Public Library Program which is the only large scale program aimed at getting free rod building information into the hands of fishermen and potential rod builders). So my idea is pretty much a mute point. I’m not going to do it - I have neither the time nor the money to operate a trade group (although I already have a website in place and ready to launch since the middle of last summer). And it doesn’t appear that anyone else is going to do it either. So that idea is mostly a mute point for the time being.

In the meantime, I’ve warmed to Joe’s idea. Maybe the professional rod builders will get behind such a thing and maybe the industry will help out. Maybe. They do spend money, just not always in the right places to do themselves much good. If Joe can prove to the builders that he can help drive the market for custom rods, offer them additional educational opportunities and attain some public recognition for the craft, then he will have a worthwhile endeavor on his hands. After some thought, I do see a need for what he proposes.

I’ve spoken to Joe a couple of times since and I feel that he is a very knowledgeable person with the capability to accomplish what he proposes. I think he realizes that many people will just roll their eyes at such an announcement and murmur how “other groups said the same thing starting out and look what happened.” Fair enough. Each new endeavor has to live down the failures of past endeavors. But it can be done. If you prefer to wait and see what Joe can accomplish before jumping in, fine. No one can blame you. But I’m going to join in support of what he proposes and am happy to have RBI here as a sponsor and at the 2007 International Custom Rod Building Exposition. If I didn’t think Joe was on the up and up, this wouldn’t be the case.

One thing I don’t think Joe, or anyone, can do, is be all things to all people. Any organization that tries to accomplish too much or reach too many areas is going to be spread too thin and rarely accomplishes anything. From my own perspective, I’d like to see RBI focus on one or two mail goals and then push them through to fruition without the interference that often comes from having too many hands on the wheel. I’d ask everyone to let Joe do what he wants to do and not get too upset if he can’t accommodate every suggestion or idea. You can branch out and do more down the road, but you have to get underway first.

If you want to know more about RBI, please email or call Joe. I’m not the one who can give you the information on the organization. This is Joe’s baby and I’m sure he’d be happy to hear directly from anyone seriously interested in his proposals and goals.

..............

Absolutely....email or call me directly with any comments, thoughts, ideas, questions or criticism. I am completely open to any and all suggestions. I may or may not be able to do everything you suggest right away; but I will consider every idea and incorporate it into my plans if it benefits rod building and rod builders. I will also respond directly to you with my thoughts regarding your ideas. My only goal is to make this the best possible organization it can be and to provide real value to rod builders and the craft of rod building. It will take some doing and some time, but the end result will be well worth the effort.

I sincerely appreciate all of the comments above. I do not know the answers to all the questions in the world. I thought I did when I was 18, but that was a very long time ago. Now I know I have a plan for RBI and that plan can be improved greatly by listening to others and seeking expert advice. You are all experts who can give me advice. Please do not hesitate to do so.

Thank you all very much for the continued encouragement and for asking questions. Every exchange is meaningful and causes me to think and causes me to learn which can only be good for RBI.

Thanks, Joe

Joe Douglas

This is a no nonsense site, with no nonense information available to all, young and old, the short and the tall, the novice and the pro, the Davids and the Goliaths.We all benefit.. Anyone with any interest in fishing rods will find no better advice on rods in any other place. Its all available here, and as such this forum is the oracle in my view. It will take an almighty effort to replace it-but it only serves those who know about it !

There are also many out there who are not computor savy, and they want to know too-And many many more I am sure would support a recognised custom rod builder, if they knew of them, and were aware of the shortfalls of the massed produced articles. Many truely believe that good rods can only be built in factories, because the local guy is just that, a local guy who does not have the untouchable magic and mystique, or the resources of a corporation behind him. He is likely more expensive and cant give an unconditional lifetime garrantee-but he does beautiful work.. Local guy Joe cannot sqare up against a full page add in the mag where super hero mega tounament winner has a picture with a smile and a badge with a big brand name on, that anyone can find in any tackle shop, or mag.

If the RBI can do something to change public awareness then it has a place, a much needed one. Every body knows that a racing car is tweaked, tuned, and custom fitted to bring out the most potential for the driver to utilize in order to win at his game. The rod building proffessionals are the formula one research, developement custom fitting engineers that tweak, tune and custom fit an anglers gear to bring out the most potential for the angler to win at his game !!!

The formula one engineers have letters after their name, so are presumed tested and qualified by a recognised governing authority. It's not so for local guy joe when it comes to his rod building work, but the engineers at the big brand rods name are presumed to know what they are doing, because the corporation backed them by hireing them to design and build rods.

My point here is that how can you promote something that has not been certified as qualified to do the job-I think rod builders should be able to get letters after their name to certify their work, knowledges and kills.

Sure, some of us have been lucky enough to get some recognition for our work in trade meags etc, but for most, even setting out to achieve such reconition, there would be little of chance of getting that recognition, because there is little recognised, and no organised authority to give it-can the RBI do that ?
Doctors, Lawers, Accountants, Engineers and so on are certified as qualified to practice their trade.The Fly Fishing Federation can do it to certify casting instructors. Boat captains are certified as qualified to know how to run their boat safely. Can the RBI set up something for the professional rod builder. At least that would give the RBI a yard stick to wave at the public, and the public something to judge custom rod builders by.

Professionals have charters, certification, and other professional authority codes to practice. Companies and corporations have ISO standards that certify their products and services. I'm sure that professional rod builders,and (even rod manufacturers) could achieve a similar recognition.

If the RBI is going to promote custom rod building then it should set a minimum standard.
Earl

Very well said. I'm sure Joe will take your comments under advisement.

For any type of accreditation or qualification to have any impact upon the public, the organization that issued it has to have some measure of widespread credibility among the angling public. Otherwise all you have is just a piece of paper hanging on the wall.

It will be interesting to see where Joe can go with all this. But your idea has a lot of merit. If his advertising and marketing are able to make RBI a household name among fishermen, then it's definitely possible for such accreditation or qualification to actually be worth something.


..............

I could not agree more with what Earl has said. I can assure you that I am a strong supporter of education and believe in the certification process. I've been through it personally in my former profession and I have acquired those letters behind my name.

I see the initial RBI plan as outlined leading to much greater possibilities down the road. We do need to have standards, best practices and minimum qualifications. We also require a code of ethics as well as manufacturing and customer service guidelines. These things, and many more critical components, will evolve as we assemble information and develop the organization. It is typically the practitioners themselves who establish the standards and practices; and determine the qualifications necessary to practice. All too often the evolution of these items can be a tendency toward exclusivity of membership rather than a truly nuturing and developmental profession. We want to be certain that what we create continues to promote inclusivity and provide the environment for professional development that appears to be lacking today in rod building.

We won't begin RBI with all the questions answered. We will begin with goals in mind and work diligently toward those goals to the ultimate benefit of custom rod building and cusotm rod builders. Looking back on this beginning one or three or five years from now should be a very rewarding experience for all RBI members. I expect the changes to be positive and the benefits to be tangible for all those involved.

Thank you for your continued encouragement and the excellent discussion. The response is great and the information very useful. Joe

Joe Douglas

If the group does what it promises and is reputable and professional, it will almost surely succeed. I think plenty of rod builders have been looking for something like this.

I am such a newbie (and am a hobbyist, not a professional, as well) that I feel totally unqualified to comment, but A) I've never let that stop me before, and B) perhaps a set of newer eyes might bring a different perspective than those that have been at this for a long time.

One of the problems I've seen with custom rods is that there is nothing to stop someone from setting up shop as a professional rodbuilder. One can have no experience, no familiarity with the equipment or methods, and yet one can still hang a shingle and sell "custom" rods. One doesn't even need knowledge of fishing. And when a buyer gets a lousy custom rod from one of these guys, the buyer's poor experience is a reflection on custom rods in general. We can argue about how fair this is -- it probably is not fair that some schmoe's lousy product reflects poorly on honest, skilled craftsmen -- but irrespective of that it's still the truth. Add the uncertainty about a builder's qualifications to the fact that custom rods can at time be a somewhat difficult sell, and the result can be a general skepticism about custom rods in general.

Another problem, which is primarily related to the above: say a guy hears about custom rods, and is interested in buying one. Where does he go? Around me, he's likely to go to a local tackle shop, where he will probably - but not definitely - find a competent rodbuilder. There's enough uncertainty in the entire process for most fishermen -- and I know because I talk to them all the time -- to say the heck with custom rods. After all, factory rods work just fine for most people, and there's no confusion about buying a factory rod: you just go in the store and pick out what you want.

I went fishing last weekend, and took my new spiral striper jigging rod on its maiden voyage. After getting the usual ribbing for using a "weirdo" rod, the guys asked me why I go to the trouble to build my own rods, when for about the same amount of money I can get a decent product off the shelf. I told them about how it's better to build something that exactly matches what you want it to do, the satisfaction in using something you built, etc., but the thing that made them notice was that I asserted -- vehemently and, I believe, correctly -- that in the long run a good custom will save you money. My striper jigging rod may have cost me a bit more to make than a similar factory rod, but I'll still be fishing with that rod when my friends are on the great-grandchildren of the factory rods they fish with now.

Sorry I've taken too long with this, but my point is that the RBI would be very useful if it did three things (other than spreading general awareness of the craft of custom rodbuilding). The first, and to my mind most important, would be to have a technical standard for builders to join. One would have to show a certain level of technical proficiency to be a member (or at least to be a member as a commercial builder, i.e. one who sells rods to others). That way John Q. Public, in looking to get a custom rod, could be assured that in dealing with an RBI-endorsed builder that he is dealing with someone who knows what he's doing, that he's not dealing with some Johnny-come lately who's read two articles on rodbuilding. The second thing, which is really a corollary of the first, is to be a referral service for those interested in getting a custom rod. Not sure where to go? Contact RBI, and they'll set you up with a local builder who will take the time to do things right and deliver a product that will be better than what you were expecting. And the third thing, as I did with my friends last weekend, would be to act as an informational source on the virtues of obtaining a custom rod. Once the myths surrounding custom rods are dispelled -- and there are plenty of custom rod myths out there -- people are much more receptive to the idea of getting one.

As I've thought about this, the more I think this could be a very good idea. And Joe seems like a good guy to lead it. Though my experiences with him have not been all that extensive, those that I've had have shown me that he's a stand-up guy. And I wish him all the good luck in the world with it.

Chris,
I think that you really nailed it!! I have seen the damage to the reputation of custom rods from just the types of things that you talk about. I have myself listened to a well respected pro angler warn against "wasting your money" on a custom rod while speaking at a very large fishing show and going on to explain how he had spent several hundred dollars on a custom rod that was on a par with a $39 discount rod only poorer quality! I'm sure that lost a lot of potential custom rod customers. Hopefully RBI will be able to counteract occurances like that. It won't happen overnight, but is an important first step!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

For me, I am very interested in how this progresses.

Like most, I built as a hobbyist for a number of years learning the craft, improving my skills until I got to the point of accepting my work as something I would actually pay money for. I now have a modest word of mouth business that I do not promote actively, only because I still have a day job and need some fishing time along with rod building. This gets me in the neighborhood of 30 rods a year or so at the current rate. So, I'm confident of my skills and have gone through sort of a "self certification" process.

But, the time is on the horizon when I will kiss off the day job and will want the rod building business to be a bit bigger. The leverage of a proffessional group that carries a minimum certification and set of business standards would be a big boost, along with group marketing and promotion would be an outstanding way to help promote the business when the time is right for me. Sooner than later I hope. Next steps for me would be websites, show booths, etc. Professional materials to promote the one-man business would be a big help.

My caution is that the Rob Builders Guild has sort of a certification process but is lacking on the promotion and information side of this discussion. The exclusivity of this group really turned me off so I never pursued it.

So, when do we get to see the goals and RBI objectives for the first 3 years? I'm pretty interested and am likely to sign up as long as the focus of the organization is reasonable.

Terry

Again, certification and/or accreditation is only of value if the potential customer has some awareness of the institute or organization that awarded it. For instance, if you go to the doctor this afternoon and on his wall you see a diploma from say, John's Hopkins, Duke or another recognized medical teaching university, versus one from say, Neechy Smith University, which one is going to instill more confidence in you?

Joe's inital plan to build a "brand awareness" for RBI through advertising in national sportsfishing magazines and such will be the first step in creating an identity that the fishing public will be aware of. It's going to cost a lot of money but in my discussions with Joe he seems committed to spending his own money to get this thing up and going. I do not believe he is waiting on membership fees to get started nor planning to go about this on a shoestring on in a few spare hours here and there. He is moving forward full speed ahead.

......

Chris,

I have only been able to advertise on a limited basis, but many of the folks here do quite well with their listings -

www.tackleworks.org

There is no accreditation involved with the site, however, it is simply the North American Directory of Rod Repair and Custom Rod Builders. Builders pay a small lifetime fee to be listed and those fees go into small classified advertisements in various sportsfishing publications. Advertising is done as listing fees come in. In this regard, I'm hoping that Joe will be able to go me one better by maintaining a larger presence among the general fishing public.

.........

I have my Doctorate of Rod Building from Rod State University hanging on the wall here in my shop, very impressive!!! A friend of mine presented it to me, he bought it off the internet. Jesse

Jesse, the thing about your certificate is, it is a joke. I am sure you intend it that way and you and your customers probably get a kick out of it. That is all well and good. But even such a certificate if it was acquired in earnest and meant to be serious will still be a joke to customers if they have no idea who the issuing body or organization is.

Reading these posts I can see how important it is that RBI attain some sort of recognition among the general fishing public. I also know that this is going to cost a lot of money and take a little time. But if Joe is serious about spending and doing what is necessary then I think he stands a good chance of getting RBI to succeed where others have not.

I have not seen any comment about how much the membership fee will be. I will be willing to spend a lot more to join once I see that this is really going to go somewhere. I would bet a lot of others feel the same way I do. I do not think anyone will mind spending the money but they will want to make sure that they are not throwing their money down a hole with no hope of return. I would rather spend a lot and get positive results than spend a little and get no results.

I don't care for earlier comments that the guild won't like this RBI organization. The guild is built upon the principle of learning by sharing. In the last journal issue they sent out you can even find many statements about how a builder should take advantage of ALL the various resources available to the rod builder. I think the guild will welcome RBI and even suggest that their members join and support it. Anyone in the guild will tell you that they do not see RBI as competition for the guild, but as one more additional resource for the rod builders. Wait and see. I bet they will get behind RBI in a big way.