Finally got my magazine last night. Great article on the threadless wraps! I remember reading vague, second-hand accounts of this method years ago on the Internet- but there is nothing like seeing it to get a person motivated. Thanks RodMaker!

I submit this post to get vendors thinking. This method has a lot of promise, but the "1/3 as strong" issue will turn a lot of people (including myself) away. However, it seems to me that this "torquing off" is a result of the fact that ALL feet on guides made today were designed for traditional thread wrapping. For this threadless method, the long narrow foot is simply not appropriate. What we need is a guide designed specifically for threadless wraps- it probably should have a wider, shorter, curved foot to allow more surface area to be bonded to the rod out to each side of the guides. This would reduce or eliminate the torque issue, and might make this method just as strong or stronger than thread wrapped guides.

Or, instead of a foot coming off each side of the guide, you could have each side of the guide transition quickly to a split-ring. You would just slide the split ring up the rod, it would expand as you go. It would completely circle the rod, so it would take a tremendous lateral load before failing. Also, no rubber bands would be needed for initial positioning- just slip them on, glue it up, done!

The first company to make a guide that will help make this threadless wrap equivalent in strength to traditional wraps will be getting a lot of business from me.

I was reading it yesterday also and like it but one thing kind of bothers me. How do you replace a guide. I don't think (I may be 100% wrong here) that PG can be simply warmed and peeled off like finish can.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Looks like a lot of material to stick the guide. How does the weight compare to thread & epoxy?

By adding more metal to the guides, you start adding a lot of weight, so there is a tradeoff. By the time you've added enough material for more stability/better bonding, etc, is it worth the loss in total performance, especially on lighter rods, where guide feet are already being cut down and ground for further weight reduction? Plus, to get a good fit on a blank, I would think there would have to be a lot of configurations available, or something that will take quite a bit more prep work than guides already require. It's an alternative method of installing guides, rather than a direct replacement that will work for all applications across the board. I would be very comfortable using this method on some of my rods, but not all.

I've been playing with replacing/repairing guides with this and while it can be done, it certainly takes more time and effort than with thread wraps. It isn't something that I personally would want to be doing a lot of.

IFit takes 5 days to cure before use;
and if it uses at least as much epoxy as a thread wrap;
and if the strength is approximately 1/3 that of a thread wrap;
THEN, aside from the novelty and the aesthetic appeal,
Threadless Wraps (or more properly "Encasement Wraps")
seem to be limited in utility to lighter rods and offer marginal benefits.
In my untested opinion. ... Exciting, ...yes, ... but not for everybody.
... Very nice article for those to whom it appeals. -Cliff Hall.

Mike,

I've already spoken to some folks about modifying guides and making some specifically for this technique. The problem is, any redesign of guides is terribly expensive and considering that this technique will likely be limited to a few thousand (at best) custom rod builders, can you sell enough of such specialty guides to cover the costs of designing and producting them. The answer is likely to be, no.

So, now it falls on the custom builder to modify any guides that he or she wishes to use with this technique and in those cases where a stronger attachment is required. I have little doubt that somebody will come up with something. I've already run a few ideas through my head and have some others doing the same right now. Expect a follow up in a near future issue.

I still wouldn't focus on the "1/3rd strength of regular thread wraps" where most rods are concerned. As I said in the sidebar, the thing to focus on is, are these type guide attachments strong enough for the job that needs to be done. In most cases the answer is a resounding yes.


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Tom- I had a feeling someone had beat me to this though. It seems to me that this technique has a lot of potential for mass production of rods too- outwrapping has to be one of the more significant costs. In this case it could be quite lucrative to be the first with such a guide...

It sounds like a nice innovation to the educated fishing public at large, but for the average fishing joe, the returns due to user abuse/damage would be substancial enough to put any mfg off it, and while not specifically a defect in materials and workmanship issue, the over all designing of this type of rod for general use might be considered Mfg related defective workmanship

You will badly damage the guide before you'll knock one off the rod. Check the photo in the magazine where I try to tear one off with a pair of pliers - the guide is ruined beyond any repair and the guide is still firmly attached to the rod.

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I have a question to ask in reguards to this. Please keep in mind I am very new to rod building. Instead of using thread to tie guides to the blank, can you use heat shrink tubes instead before you epxoy them. Or would the heat from epoxy melt the tubes and damage the rod blank. I am curiouse if anyone has ever tried this and wondered how it work.

Mike P.

Hey, no fair talking about this before I get my issue in the mail!

Eagle Claw tried heat shrink tubing some years ago. If you can get enough sizes to suit the various diameters, it should work okay. You would not need any epoxy to overcoat the tubing with. I haven't personally used heat shrink to fasten guides to a rod. I suppose I'd be worried about the pressure of the shrink tubing driving the guide feet into a thin walled blank. But that may not be an issue. I've not done any tests to see how much constriction pressure such tubing puts on something.

The threadless guide wrap written about in the new issue, wasn't really developed because there is anything wrong with regular guide thread wraps. Nor due to any savings in time. It might be a tad lighter and it's a whole lot more eye catching. Those who often ask about how to make a thread wrap disappear so that only the guide and feet show now have a perfect way to do it.


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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2006 10:24PM by Tom Kirkman.

I got a great idea....keep using thread!!! Maybe lighter thread? lol!

Mike

NERB that types with a bar of Ivory soap in his mouth.

I'm with Mike. White silk seems to do just fine.

Jay

After reading the article, this definitely wasn't something meant for every rod out there. But it seems worth trying, especially on a Ultralight graphite trout rod, no foregrip, split grip, has some potential.

Here in Japan there are some small plastic guides made by Fuji that you can glue in place. Extremely light but limited to the smallest blank sizes. Again, not for everything, but have their uses.

Phil

Just an idea and observation,,,,
If your looking for something different,,, Would a copolymer / mono 2-4# tippet material help the 1/3 strength problem and become invisible under something like high build flex-coat? Maybe leaving the wraps a bit open and only on the actual foot (partially) would help? Probably help me in the opportunity to position things better too?
Just a foolish beginner's thoughts.
I admit the threadless look is alluring, but for my conv. striper rods,,, I've concerns.