I knew full well that as folks started getting the new issue of the magazine some would question whether the Threadless Guide Wraps really saved any weight. Thread is, after all, pretty light and the amount of weight you’d actually save by not using any would be infinitesimal. Then again, this varies based on how you normally wrap and finish your guides. Weight savings could be so slight as to be of no concern, while in other cases there could be enough to actually make a marked difference. Remember, weight added or removed makes an exponentially greater difference as you move out further and further towards the tip of the rod.
I have addressed this questions with some data in the issue that I’m working on now, but in the meantime, if you want to do your own tests, here’s how... (This will require a very good scale in order to take the weight measurements.)

1. Get a piece of non-tapered tubing. Aluminum is fine, small diameter, similar to what you’d have on most of the rods you build. Weigh it and record that amount as figure 1.

2. Get two identical guides, weigh them and make sure they are identical. If not, pick through the pile and find two that are. Two decimal places should be enough. If you cannot find two that are identical, record any slight difference and jot it down somewhere.

3. Wrap and finish one guide in your normal fashion. Then, attach the other guide with the Threadless Guide Wrapping technique found in the RodMaker article. Let both set and then weigh the tubing, with both guides attached. Record that amount as figure 2.

4. Now shave off the first wrap - the one done with regular thread and epoxy. Carefully clean the tubing surface of any thread or epoxy residue. Now weigh the tube along with the one guide still remaining. Record that amount as figure 3.

Take the amount you recorded in figure 3 and subtract it from figure 2. That will give you the weight of the normally wrapped and finished guide.

Take the amount you recorded in figure 1 and subtract it from figure 3. That will give you the weight of the Threadless Wrapped guide.

At this point you now have the combined weight of each type of guide attachment. You can now subtract the weight of the guide from each in order to arrive at the weight of each respective attachment method. Note the difference.

Now the difference is going to depend on a lot of variables, including the size thread you use, the length of your wrap and how much epoxy or urethane you apply. I can tell you that if you’re already using the shortest possible wraps and applying the minimum amount of epoxy, you won’t find much difference. We’re talking an extremely small amount. On the other hand, you may find a greater difference if you typically make longer wraps, use underwraps, create a very high build epoxy coating, etc.

As in everything we do, some may benefit from even a small difference, while others may not give a hoot. Decide for yourself.


...............

cant wait to see the techniques when my issue arrives!!!

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information,which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
- Herbert Spencer

May any finish other than Permagloss be utilized for this method?

No, not just any other finish. Some likely, but many not. It has to have certain qualities in order to make it appropriate for this. Epoxy is not. Many urethanes are.

The technique is important too, of course.

................

Tom,
I am not professional rod builder but have gone head over heels with this hobby. When I wrap all my guides I always check for aligment and seem to always have to align one or two guides that are not lined up perfect. How would you align the guides if your using epoxy to mount them? Is there some system that I'm missing to keep the guides lined up? Since I am building my grips with birch bark now I think threadless wraps are great,can't wait to give this a shot!

I sure wish I could make it to the show this year!!!

Dave

The guides are held to the blank with rubber rings. You'd just sight down them and make sure they're in alignment before you start the coating process.

..............

I wonder how this would work on surf rods and heavy boat and bottom fishing rods. Will the guides hold?

I honestly don't know. The only rod I have fished for any length of time with this type attachment has been a lighter freshwater rod. The brief tests I did while preparing the article can't be considered to provide enough data to really say for sure what the limits of this technique might be. It will take some time and experimentation under actual fishing conditions to find out for sure just where to draw the line, if at all.

As I wrote in the article sidebar, it does seem perfectlly suitable for nearly any lighter freshwater rod and perhaps some lighter saltwater rods as well. Ralph reports that he has a rod he made this way many years ago and that it took a 180lb halibut and held up just fine.

I'm afraid I really don't know what to tell you here, other than to try it on some heavier rods and see what happens. As more and more builders give it a go, reports will trickle in and some sort of performance record out on the water will begin to build.


............

I am excited to try this method. Where do you get your Premagloss? I have shown the pic in Rod Maker to some of my friends and they want one as soon as I can get one made.

James,

[u-40.com]

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

James,
Most of the vendors on the left carry it

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Don't the rubber rings show through the epoxy or urethane?

Ted,

I can only guess you haven't read the article. Perhaps your magazine hasn't arrived yet. Be patient.

There are no rubber rings in the finished article.

It's fine to try and piece things together from message board posts, but if you want to really do this properly, get the magazine and read the article. Too often guys attempt something from the bits and pieces found on web forums and then when they don't get good results they blame the technique, when it was the lack of proper instructions that doomed their attempt.

...........

Unfortunately, not subscribed. I gotta tell you, piecing things together is fun though. Gets you really thinking: good thing I'm patient and don't rush things too much. I think the last time I jumped the gun was a while back, using 5 minute epoxy for a handle assembly.

Never get the same amount of accurate, detailed info from a forum (even this one) that you get from the magazine

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

To whom it may concern,

Guys, Bill has informed me that as of this afternoon he has already gotten nearly 50 emails asking him to detail the technique. He's already written the article once, please don't impose upon him to write it again. It's available in print, with complete photos and information sidebars, if you want it.

..............

Ted Morgan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately, not subscribed. I gotta tell you,
> piecing things together is fun though. Gets you
> really thinking: good thing I'm patient and don't
> rush things too much. I think the last time I
> jumped the gun was a while back, using 5 minute
> epoxy for a handle assembly.

If you try putting this technique together via pieces - you might want to purchase a very inexpensive blank and a very inexpensive set of components.

I hate to be the one that points this out, but I doubt that Rodmaker could survive very long if all of the articles in each issue were provided free on this (or any other) forum. I realize that subscribing is a personal preference but if you choose not to, then you also choose not to have access to the information contained in the issue. Without Rodmaker, their would be no medium for these cutting edge techniques to be distributed and discussed in forums. It's an economic necessity that RM have subscribers. We talk about supporting sponsors but if we don't support Rodmaker, it all goes away!!!
THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Agreed Mike....I hovered around here for a lil' while before I subscribed, and am glad I subscribed. Cant wait to this issue arrives, cuz this technique is really interesting to me....

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information,which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
- Herbert Spencer

i wouldnt mind subscribing.. problem is, i am in Singapore..basically we have limited resources.. books on rod building are even harder to find..

purchased the custom thread art book (Dale Clemens) many many years back,, sold it and realised that it was a gem.. and luckily managed to find it again recently, together with the new advanced custom rod building book..

been wanting to get Tom's guide, but it is not cost effective for me to bring it in just like that..

edited : i just looked at the book on amazon.. and i noticed that the book was printed in Singapore!?

-
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day..
Teach a man to fish, he'll be broke!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2006 08:23PM by Christopher Tan.