Usually I put wire guides on my fly rods, but want to get put ceramics on one of these 9wt blanks i got for a head to head comparison. before I buy guides however, I want to know what your setup would be for such a rod (as far as guide sizes)? This is going to be used for some salmon here in MI and some lighter saltwater fishing.

i was thinking like 16-12-7-7-6-6-6-6-5 tip top

any thoughts?

thanks guys,
Steve

I wouldn't go smaller than a 7 ring guide, I'd also go with a high framed 16.

thanks, i am kinda out of the loop as far as the i.d. of the ringed guides (looks like i overestimated the i.d.).... and yes, i was thinking the high framed titans for the stripping guides. keep the suggestions coming.

I am building a Dan Craft FT 9' 9wt now with Fuji TiSiC Concept guides.
16, 12, another 12 for a tamer, 10 sf, 8, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, tip-top.
I know that many would skip the 8, but I am old fashioned.
Herb

Oooops.
It is 16, 12 tamer, another 12, etc
Herb

If you are going to use Titan guides by all means use the high frame NIV sizes 20,12,10 or 20,16,12 then sizes 10,8,8,8,7,7 NIF guides then the tip. A 16 stripper guide is too small on a saltwater rod go with the 20 you'll be glad you did.

20-16-10-8-7's

Scott Kinney
The Longest Cast Fly Rods
[www.thelongestcast.com]

Get rid of all the in-between sizes - they do nothing for you other than add weight. They do not result in a more gradual line path, but rather create a path that is less straight. See the last 3 issues of RodMaker for the articles and photos.

Use the smallest running guides you can that will still pass any required connections. If that's a #6, I'd go:

16 - 12 and then as many 6's as you need.

If the smallest guide you can use is a #7, then go:

16 - 12 and then as many 7's as need.

I'm just thankful that the guide manufacturers don't make sizes 15, 14, 13, 11, 9 etc., or guys would be trying to shoehorn those in there too. You don't have to use them, just because they make them.

Never use more than 3 guide sizes on any rod. (Some spinning rods might take 4 at the outside).


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Not that it means anything but I agree with Tom. Don't know much about fly rods but on spinning, casting (especially spirals), I never use mor than 3 sizes with the running guides being fly type ceramics

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Disagree, Tom... the line flow is noticeably smoother with a transition down to the running guides. Also, a #20 stripper on a 9wt, especially if you're going to be using shooting heads or tip systems, will limit initial hangups and promote better shooting.

Scott Kinney
The Longest Cast Fly Rods
[www.thelongestcast.com]

The difference between moving from a #12 directly to say, a 7 instead of a 10 is nil because of the distance between the guides.

Over a span of several inches, moving from say, a #12 directly to a #7 isn’t going to change the angle of the line by more than a degree or two at most compared to moving from that #12 to a #10. And the transition will be just as gradual as moving from that 12 to the 10 would be. The transition is the space between the guides, not the guides themselves. The trick is to keep from having any more line path angle changes than absolutely necessary.

Check the photos of the roller coaster path that occurs when using all the various sizes. Every time you change the size of a guide, you introduce another new angle to the line path. If you move straight down quickly and then stay the same on out, you will only have 1 or perhaps 2, path angle changes. With 4 or 5 different sized guides, you'll have 4 or 5 path angle changes.

The guides should be chosen so that they conform to the line path, not the other way around. And yet most builders insist on pre-selecting guides and then making the line conform to a path that is hardly straight at all.


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Scott, your right. I've had the pleasure of guiding one of the worlds most talented casters, Lefty Krey. Lefty and I have talked about this on several days on the water and he will tell you fly rods built with size 20 and larger stripper guides cast much better than those that don't. I use a 20 stripper guide on anything over a 4 weight. If I'm building a 9wt. rod that is going to be used with an Abel Super 9 I'll go with a 25 because the reel is 4.125 inches in diameter. If you want to see a acute angle look at the angle coming off the reel to the first guide when the rod is under a fish fighting mode, if you use a 16 stripper. Then put a 25 on there and see what that looks like. You'll agree the 25 looks better under load.

I also have read that Lefty, and others of good repute,, espouse the use of at least a #20 - even a # 25 - on 8 - 10wt saltwater fly rod. That is why I was concerned that Fuji does not make a TiSiC stripper larger than a #16. But after reading some opinions on this site I built a number of 7 - 9 wt saltwater rods with the #16 as stripper. The rods cast beautifully and the line flows through the #16 without hesitation.
From what I have read on the subject, the primary reason that Lefty and the others recommend the use of the largest strippers is so knots and tangles will pass through with ease. In my opinion that is counter intitutive. Shouldn't you want the tangle to stop at a point close to you so you can deal with it. And why would you want the tangle to get as far as a running guide to pop off a section of the rod?

Lefty is a great fly fisherman and caster, far better than me. But I am confident that I am a much better rod builder than he is. So are most of you, too.

Lefty isn't a very good rod builder, I'm afraid.

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Herb,

You're also a much better rod builder than Lefty is. You could certainly teach him a thing or two about rod design.

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Butt guide sizing is another matter from what we've been discussing here. Typically you want to increase the height of the frame until you no longer see any increase in casting ease or distance. Ring size is not terribly important, but you can only go so high with the frame so moving to a larger ring gets you extra height at the same time. If you could buy super high 16s or 12s that would be about all you'd never need. But outside of the match type guides, the SVSG is about the highest standard frame around.

When I was consulting for Thomas & Thomas I made them several prototypes and we all felt that an SVSG 16 was the best all around butt guide size on the larger rods. There was no futher advantage to be had with anything with a larger ring. I did like the HSVSG 16 the best due to the extra height, but they felt that the cost was prohibitive.


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