I have been requested to build a heavy trolling rod with rollers to match a Shimano Tiagra 50. The specifcation is for an unlimited rod that can haul in a 200 to 300lb marlin. It must have Rollers and heavy duty reel seat. I have not built such a monster rod. What blank and components must I go for. Budget is for about USD 650.00 including my services and one of my "snowflakes" wrap.
Can the marlin and tuna kings out there help me decide?

Thank you.

Anthony Lee

i recommend winthrop guides, the colors match perfect and are what i use for 50,80, and 130 class rods, matched with a storabutt from aftco and a seeker sksm50, ok prices you might ask, butt- around 90 to 140, guides are very pricey around 300 for the set with top, and the blank is around 70, so all together about 475-500 in parts using winthrops, aftco guides would be drastically less but so would the quality and durability, winthrops will never go bad break or bend, and we use em for 700 to 1000lbs tuna and marlin.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2006 12:29AM by Matthew Birge.

Thank you Matthew. Never heard of winthrop. Can you tell me how I can source them guides and butt?. What about reel seat? Would you build spiral ? Thanks for your advise.

Anthony Lee

I second the recommendation on the Winthrops. Really nice rollers. I'd probably go with Winthrop rollers and do a blank-through construction. The Uni-butt/Stora-butts are nice too but are really only needed if you planning on breaking down the rod from the reel for storage or something. And, to stay within the budget I would probably not use them. Just my opinion, Randy.

Thanks Randy. Please tell me where I can source for Winthrops. Any of our sponsors on the left here sell them?

Anthony Lee

I've built more than a few of these type rods. Seeker IGFA blank, Aftco HD rollers and Uni-butt. Simple, cost effective and dependable.

But this is a lot of rod for a small 200lb to 300lb marlin. I'm not sure your customer isn't overgunning by quite a bit.

By the way, is he looking for a sit-down rod, or a stand-up type rod. I'd hope the former.

..............

I Second Tom on the Aftco's although the Winthrop are the Cadillac you could go with the hd ball bearing aftcos and then you are getting an exceptional guide. I'm with Tom also on the fact that for a 50 reel this is alot of rod you could use and 80lb class blank and get all you need. Even if he put 100lb line on the 50 the 80lb blank would be plenty. Just my thoughts and experience. Scott

I just got confirmation that the Marlins at Christmas Island can go to as heavy as 800 lbs. I am currently looking at Calstar GFTR 755 XXH 5'6" 60-130 lb or GFTR 760 H 6' 50-130, Aftco Black Gold rollers and top, size 3 Aftco reel seat and gimble. Rod is for seat down troller. Need advise on how to do spiral wrap with either of the two blanks.

Thanks for all your advise.

Anthony Lee

Anthony,
Mudhole sells the Winthrops.

I would advise NOT to use a stand-up blank for a rod that is destined to fish from the chair. If this is a chair rod, please use one of the IGFA or "RT" blanks.

If you are going to use Aftco roller guides then you WILL NOT be spiral wrapping this rod. It isn't possible. The only rollers that you can spiral are the @#$%& rollers from All American. Otherwise you will have to go with rings and ditch the rollers.

I'm going to assume this guy will be fishing his 50 reel with at least 80# line. Is that a good assumption? The line class to be used is VERY important. This needs to be determined so as to get the proper sized blank.

Another thing that is EXTREMELY important when building IGFA rods is to find out what kind of boat they fish from. Used to it wasn't that big of a deal, but today there are alot of boats out there being built with VERY wide cockpits. It is important to build a rod long enough to clear the stern corners. You can always ask them if their current rods are long enough and what length they are. VERY VERY IMPORTANT...don't skip this step!

Parts wise...assuming we're talking about an 80# rod...I'll say you should just sneak by at around $400 in materials. This includes a GOOD blank like Seeker, unibutt, and top quality Aftco 'ball bearing' rollers in black/gold. This leaves your budget plenty of wiggle room for your snowflake wrap.

I WILL at this time make one suggestion. The gold that Aftco uses DOES NOT come close to matching the color of the Shimano Tiagra line of reels. The Aftco gold looks nice with Penn Internationals, but is hard for me to look at comfortably with the Shimano. I would personally go with black and no gold on the rollers and unibutt. And here's a hint...Gudebrod's HT Metallic in Pale Gold #2007 is a spot on match to the Tiagra color. At least it used to be. I think the newer reels are a bit different shade, but not far off.

Reading above it says where this is a 'seat down troller'. My assumptions have been that you mean 'sit down' as in a chair rod. I again will say DO NOT use a stand-up blank for this. Especially one with blank-thru construction like you described in your last post. You're going to end up with a rod no longer than 6' when you should be building a rod that is AT LEAST 7' in length (they can easily go 7 1/2' on up to 8' for WIDE boats). If this is a stand-up rod, please disreguard my entire post.

Hi Antony,
I just thought I would add my 2 penneth worth of thought and some limmited experience here. I have built quite a few of these big trolling rods, including an 80 that landed a 1635 lb blue taken by Mike Houston off Portugal back in 93.
As for the fish, they should not be under estimated-they have evil abilities to find the faults in tackle. If your client is serious about having a crack at every fish that takes, then he should be serious about the rod he wants to use-especially if he is using a 50 lb class reel ! A marlin leader rig and lure can easily top $100, and would be easy to lose on a 50 class reel that wont have the capacity to handle a good marlin with much margin. Of course its done regularly, but there are alot more broken off fish. A couple of hundred extra bucks spent on the gear could save a small fortune in lost terminal rigs and lures
I would advise that your client try to expand his budget and go for top of the line components throughout.. It will be easier on him, and the fish in the long run.
Find out too if your client plans to troll lures, or baits, as there are diferent requirements needed in the actions of the rods for the different methods-trolled baits require a softer actioned blank, and are used at slower speeds. Also will he be using wind on leaders, as this may have a bearing on guide requirments if he is using standard leaders.
Winthrop, Alutecnos, and Aftco ball bearing big foots would be the choice for guides these days. I dont know if Fin-Nor still have there guides on the market, but they were considered the Rolls Royce of guides.If you come down a notch, then Aftco Big Foots are I believe the only choice at about half the cost of the others. As for blanks, there are so many to choose from, I think best to talk to some of the manufacturers once you have a good idea of what is required of the blank to help make your choice more certain that the blank has the right properties-I used to build on the Kennedy Fishers, but they are no longer in business I believe.
If ever your client is going to upgrade his reel to an 80, and he may well do this, you will need a #4 uni butt,-curved or straight ? The blank should be shimed with nylon bar turned to fit the ferrule, leaving ample space for glue to adhere to both blank and ferrule(1/4 inch holes can be drilled into the shims sides to help with the glues adhering) and well epoxied leaving no voids, especially at the ends of the ferrule, so you'll need a freind with a lathe that can do this for you. The grip should be as big a diameter as your client can comfortably handle, if he gets into a prolonged battle, a tthin grip will cramp his hands, and place more pressure on his skin to create blisters Hypalon stands up to the wear and tear on these rods, or if you can do it leather strip bound over cork. Your gluing technique must be 100%. Running guides must be underbound in size "A" thread, varnished, and then the guide feet triple over wrapped again in size "A".
The guides will set you back $300+ with top, or the standard Big Foots about $150. A blank will probably come out about $100 or more. Uni butts, straight about $100+ or curved $150. good cork and leather another $50, or Hypalon about $10. Theres $20 worth of thread in one of these with a cross wrap, and a couple of tubes of epoxy glue, and probably 20 or more cc's of varnish, +++ and then there is your time and skill which would have to be quite cheap to get the job done for $600, unless you can get your component at trade. Many of the sponsers here can supply your needs, and some will I am sure have good advice too.
Its worth checking out some of the marlin sites to get an idea of what is required in the rods properties favoured for different techniques and regions, Roddy Hayes has wide range of experience, and is found on many forums. Peter Pekula has a good site with plenty of info-do a Google, and you will find. There is a lot good guidance on forums, and they are a good place to ask questions too, just as you have done here. I hope this give you a better idea .
Best of luck Anthony, its a worthy project..
Earl.

Anthony,
I am finishing a tuna rod for either sit down or stand up. I am using a Seeker TS59XXXH blank. I have a leather grip over cork for the foregrip. I have installed Winthrop guides which I love and now am spoiled. My decorative work is abalone shell under each guide and a tuna weave. I hope to put the pictures on the board soon, but this rod will hold either a 50 or 80 Shimano reel and is aimed at heavy fish. The cost of the Winthrop Excel guides including the tip top is about $400, the unibutt- $150, the blank, $90, the leather forgrip $56, time for the weave and other trim--?$. I have priced rods like this for not less that $1400, so I would reevaluate my cost to your client.
Sanford Hochman

Anthony,
One more point I forgot to mention. I will taking the aforementioned rod to Costa Rica with me in January for Marlin fishing. They have big fish there, and I hope to have some pictures by the time the trip is finished with the new rod in action.
Sanford

I agree with Earl that the presented budget will indeed be pushing things if you are buying parts at retail. I took for granted that if you are in the business, you have wholesale accounts. What I posted above was meant if you buy at wholesale NOT retail. Sorry.

Personally, $1400 for that type rod is WAY over priced...unless Mr. Jim were to weave the baby dragon on it. THEN the weave alone would be worth that.

Of course you can use a stand-up rod in a chair as long as the chair has a flip-up gimbal and the rod butt is long enough. My personal stand up rods have such a short butt that even the flip-up gimbals have a hard time clearing the angler's thighs. This is why "chair trollers" tend to have dedicated rods to be used in the fighting chair. Plus the parabolic action of an RT blank is more condusive to fishing from the chair where LONG strokes are made vs. the EXTREMELY short stroke of a properly fished stand-up rod (hence their faster action). You can have rods that cross over, but on a SERIOUS fish it is better in my opinion to have the right tool for the job.

Best of luck.

Jay

Jay,
That makes sense. I'm coming from the place where I use swivel holders paricularly on the corners as well as standard holders on my boat, giving me a good bit of latitude, and also with inboard engines, the fish can be played at many angles. So I can use a bent butt or a straight butt depending on the size of the school of fish. It does work.
Safnford

A BIG thank you to all who have taken your precious time off to advise me on this project. I am a complete novice in this particular field and you guys have really given me a very good education. I will have to draft all the critical questions for my client to answer based on all your comprehensive experiences and suggestions.
Whether I take up this project or not, I would have learnt much from just one posting.

Once again thank you and a very merry Christmas to all.

Anthony Lee
( Hope I don't have to build this rod during the Christmas Holidays)

i buy my winthrops through a off site supplier if you would like the name and number you can email me @ turbohatch2@yahoo.com you can look at the winthrops at winthroptool.com but i dont think you can buy them there



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2006 11:48PM by Matthew Birge.

i also recommended the storabutts due to the ability to change from bent butt to straight butt depending on fishing style with just the turn of a few collet nuts, and is highly recommended

Like the comment in Jaws -

Get a bigger reel!

Either that or sign a contract with Midas for a lump sum contract for brake discs

Sitting in chair or standin up the reel will be the weak link in the chain.

Gon Fishn