Hi Guys,

Before someone shouts at me again, I did do a search before posting this question! (hehe)

Anyway, just finished my third rod (ever), another 6wt 2-piece 9' fly rod. I notice that I get tiny bubbles in the finish, and can't get rid of them. Okay, you REALLY have to look closely and search for them, but they are there on some of the wrap's finishes.

This is my process: 3cc each hardener plus 3cc resin, flexcoat high build. I stir slowly for 5 minutes until it's crystal clear. I then pour it into a shallow boal coated with aluminum foil, it spreads nicely and all the bubbles (if any) dissipate.

This is where I get trouble: I put a generous amount of epoxy onto a stiff artist's brush, or the cheap flexcoat synthetic brushes, and when I start applying it to the threads, a LOT of bubbles appear from the brushing and applying motion. Most go away as i smooth out the epoxy, but some tiny ones don't. I then blow on the finish through a straw, and that pops most bubbles, but not all...some are deep and require hard blowing, or they just won't go away or pop.

I must add you really have to look for these little bubbles, but I know they are there!!

Any help would be greatly appreciated as usual, thanks.

Mike

Michael,

When you use a brushing motion, you are introducing the bubbles. You need to apply the epoxy by lowering the loaded brush to the wrap and let the finish flow onto it while turning the rod. You want to avoid any "brushing" action as much as you can. You can get rid of the bubbles by applying some heat lightly on the turning wrap.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I find it best to use 2 layers of epoxy for my guides also to help with the bubbles. My first coat when it is finished, you can still feel and see the bumps of the thread. I apply with a brish, but as Mike said, you don't want to use a brush motion, you just want to load up the brush and let the epoxy flow onto the wrap. Then I remove most of the epoxy after the threads are completely soaked up with epoxy. This leaves such a thin layer of epoxy that bubbles usually pop on their own. With the threads completely sealed then, a second thin coat goes on and I have not had any problems with bubbles in that coat.

You may also wish to try a spatula instead of a brush. Every time I use a brush for the guide wraps, I get bubbles. You can get a fancy metal spatula from one of the sponsors for about $10. Or, you can go to McDonalds and get a coffee stirrer. This works great!

i will wegh in on the side of getting rid of the brush. every day i get credit card offers in the mail with a fake credit card inside. i save those and cut them to fit my wraps. they are stiff enough. i dip them in my flexcoat light and as i turn the rod by hand i apply finish to the bottom of the wrap. i let the turning wrap pull the epoxy off the spatula. i use the spatula to regulate the depth of the application and then pull off the sag a couple of times. works great and i get very few bubbles if any. if i get one i use the straw/hot breath method to pop them.

What Larry said above has worked very well for me for years. I like the cut up credit cards as you can better control the width of the application tool.

For about a buck you can get two decks of playing card. That's 104 spatula's that can be cut in any size that you want. Before Threadmaster, I applied the finish and lightly held the card behind the turning rod and let it smooth out and distribute the finish as well as remove excess. Since TM, I just apply and go get a coffee!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Larry, that's a great idea. I can't wait to actually put those annoying junk mail cards to work.

I've found that my cooking torch works well for bubbles if held at a safe distance.

If you did a search you no doubt came across how Tom K recommends regarding applying thread epoxy so you've got the best answer (hehe)

I agreee with the two coat method, the 1st coat very light , don't ever over brush thread epoxy ...this is where you did notice the problem, what was happening as it occured? THUS lessen this practice. Heating shortens cure time and pot life where your already pushing the limits mixing for 5 mins 2.5 to 3 mins is all you need then....foiling eats up more of the limited pot life...Thinner freshly mixed thread epoxy saturates better, and lets air bubbles come to the surface, the micro bubbles don't have enough bouyantcey to push up through thickened epoxy. The trick is to avoid them and the practices that produce them altogether.

Don't entrain air when mixing and you can save the time spent foiling the mixed thread epoxy. I keep the mixing impliment flat to the side of the mixing cup, and only use half the mixing cup, (cup always tipped on an angle even when adding components) sweeping back and forth in a "smile" pattern never lifting the stir stick from the side of the mixing cup, I never use a circular motion thus I do not gather air when mixing making a hollow circle or lifting the stir from the mix entraining air costs you pot life to remove. I do scratch the bottom of the cup (but the two components only come in contact with half the cup because it is always tipped on an angle) where the components touch the mixing cup, never a circular motion; back and forth scratching ONLY. I obtain a 50/50 by volume mixture by weighing so I can mix very small batches (1/2 gram total) if done with precision helps in many respects down the line: pot life, bubbles, savings. I don't need to mix a overly long time or vigoriuosly entraining air the whole time, I mix correctly not entraining air, I limit the amount of cup the expoy touches so I don't have to scratch this coated surface to make sure things are mixed well.

I saturate well with flexcoat, brush well, brushing out bubbles and not leaving an excess on the threads (excess will look white as it drys when using aycrlic CP) I brush CP on well, then move on to the next couple of threads, then go back with a dry brush to the 1st guide I appied CP to, and work off any white build up and let dry 24 hours.

I agree with all that has been written above but I would add one thing. When I really struggle with bubbles I simply heat both the hardener and resin in the microwave for 5 to 10 seconds. After doing so the epoxy seems to mix, spread and level very well without those blasted bubbles.

Ditto what Jim said....in addition to everything else, I have become addicted to using the microwave to warm the two parts before mixing. It is cool in my building all the time and this warming really helps things flow and eliminates bubbles.

Joe Douglas

Hi All

Thanks for all the info, I think you guys isolated the problem. It's definitely the brushing motion with the brush. I will try the spatula method, I have loads of old credit cards I can use.

The 5-minute mix thing...this is when it becomes crystal clear though. At 3 minutes there are still loads of swirls and it's a little cloudy. At 5 minutes it's perfect. And the pot life is still good, I get to cover all the wraps on a 4.5 foot piece of blank, about 10 wraps no problem.
It's hot here though (South Africa), about 32 degrees Celcius (sorry, no idea what the fahrenheit equivalent is) so that helps, the mixture is warm.

Thanks again guys!

Regards,
Mike

I'm new to rod building but found that if I add 1cc of acetone to the 3cc of resin and stir until completely clear then add the hardner I didn't end up with any bubbles. I mixed everything in the same glass shot glass and pored the mixed hardner onto tinfoil and used one of my wifes sable brushes she uses for her ceramic stuff. After I had the mixture on the threads I "flamed" it and it became very thin and the excess, if that's what it was, dropped off. It took about 2 days on the turning motor before it was completely set up. I've checked the wraps with a 10 power magnifier and wasn't able to find any bubbles. I don't know if what I did was how it is supposed to be done but I got the idea from the Dale Clemens book Advanced rod building and thought I'd trying.

I used Flex Coat rod builders epoxy glue and the stuff went on so thick I only used one coat.

Like I said, " I don't know if what I did was right or not". Maybe the whole stick will come apart, I don't know. I do know I was really supprised not to find any bubbles!

Hope this helps

darby

A long long time ago I used to warm the resin component, to make the counting drop method , then recommended, semi-functional. Now a days You lessen the pot life, but if your speedy then it would not be a problem.

Darby,

Are you using The Flex Coat Rodbuilders Glue or Flex Coat High or Low build Epoxy Rod Finish?? There is a BIG difference The Clue is an epoxy adhesive and NOT a Finish.

By adding that amount of acetone, I would think that you would be drastically altering the chemical properties of the product, possibly causing future problems.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!