On my light weight fly rods awhile back I put the guides on the same side as the effective spine (underneath) and liked the way they cast. And on my recent spinning rods for Steelhead and Salmon, I put the guides opposite effective spine (on top) and I liked that way as well. I'm not sure why but I really like the feel with the effective spine on top of the rod in the fishing position.

I picked up a Batson 1025F 2 piece recently and was wondering what would happen if I had the effective spine on the top side of the tip section and on the underside of the butt section - exactly 180 degrees apart? My thinking is the tip might be a bit softer and the butt section a bit firmer when fighting a fish. Then again I could be as wet as the fish! Any thoughts would be appreciated.

IMO, Nothing will happen. I just don't believe that spine makes one bit of difference where it is.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

The rod will spin out of your hands and fly into the ocean.

Billy V........Go wait in the Truck !!

Probably not a whole lot but if you do it maybe you could post and tell us what if any problems or good things occured. The spine has much less importance than it did back in the day. Some spine their rods and some dont. I do just because it is from the old school and was drummed into me but the guys who dont have no more problems than I do. Sometimes Tim it is just a good idea to so some individual testing and form your own conclusions. If anything disaserous might occure I am sure someone would have told you by now (that is, other that spinning and jumping into the ocean, way funny Billy)

I purchased a rather expensive factory rod which is built exactly this way, no idea if its by accident or design but I really like the rod and and it got me thinking so since built a couple of rods the same way. A bit of experimentation indicates the strength of the butt’s spine will override whichever way the tips spined.
Regards Charlie

It won't amount to a hill of beans. I'd try to find the straightest axis on both pieces and align them that way, disregarding the spine entirely. You'll like the way that casts, too.

Or... you could mock up your handle and tape some guides on both ways and try it for yourself.

...............

It comes down to two concepts: personal preference and appearance. When I was learning to build my first rods, the instructor always insisted that I spine to the top or to the bottom, depending on the rod I was building. Later on the same instructor and guys from GLoomis that I fished with said it didn't matter how or even if I spined the blank.. They suggested that I build the rod with the guides along the curve of the tip as they did, if the tip had any pronounced curve. And it was just to tone down the appearance of the curve. No practical guild setup would ever eliminate the curve.

Out of habit, I still spine a rod, and will usually orient the spine as suggested for the type of rod I'm building. Although I took a break from rod-building rod for the last two years to focus on finishing school, I continued to pick up rod blanks; many are second-hand or blemish rejects. Many do have pronounced curves, but are still buildable and fishing-worthy. I will certainly build the rod with the guide oriented along the tip's curve.

- Patrick Vernacchio

Patrick,

I have to ask ya..have ya picked up a factory Loomis spey rod lately? I think Loomis wraps the guides on the rod wherever they end up...Pick-up a factory loomis spey rod and eye it up-they look like boomerangs! Many, and I mean many rods I have seen from Loomis lately have the guides 90 degrees under the curve of the blank.

Paul

Tim,
There is an earlier thread not very far back on this very subject.
Anyone who has a question about spine should read it. Try
the search button and choose "all dates" "all authors" and grab
a sandwich and pull up a chair. you'll be there for a while.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I am a Loomis pro dealer here in Australia, recently I had a lets say difficult customer who bought a Loomis from another shop, in another area and after returning home with it, his "expert" mates assured him the rod was next useless because it was built off the spine, since i was close to him the wholesaler suggested I take a look at it for him, no matter what I said he was convinced he had received a dud. Now he doesn't trust my judgement and I have probably lost a (albeit painful) customer. The problem for guys like myself is for many years custom builders by the thousands convinced fisherman that unspined rods were infact faulty, to pedal there own product. For my personal rods, I now follow the curviture of the blank, shop rods get "Splined"
Cheers Paul.
ps: so far none of my rods have spun out of my hands and flown into the ocean! (touch wood) But it is early days

Paul,

That's unfortunate and yet very true. The thing is, almost none of these custom builders who claim spine is so important can prove that it is, nor supply any data or test results to prove their claim. They're just repeating something they've heard over the years and accepted blindly.

In the Volume 8 #4 issue of RodMaker, there is an article on how to build a spiral wrap demo device. It's also useful for putting the myth of rod spine to rest. You should have one in your shop. It's much easier to show a customer why spine doesn't matter, than to just tell him.

...............

I personally think that opposing spines on 2 piece rods is the best thing since sliced bread. It is a full compromise on this endless debate over spine! The pessimists on each side can claim that half the rod is wrong AND the optimists on each side can claim that half the rod is right - this is perfect. From now on ... all rods should be two piece to accommodate for this. 'Nuff said ...

BTW, that might just be the funniest post I have seen in a long time, Billy.

Actually, no one is saying that there is an incorrect position in which to orient the spine or that anyone is wrong to put their guides on or opposite the spine. The fact is, there is no correct position for the spine. It really doesn't matter much. That's why there is no incorrect position.

Having the rod out of its straightest axis, however, can cause some unusual casting accuracy if the blank has enough curve to it.

............

Paul Rotkis said:
"I have to ask ya..have ya picked up a factory Loomis spey rod lately? I think Loomis wraps the guides on the rod wherever they end up...Pick-up a factory loomis spey rod and eye it up-they look like boomerangs! Many, and I mean many rods I have seen from Loomis lately have the guides 90 degrees under the curve of the blank. "

Paul, I can't say I have, But I understand your point. I would also ask you to consider things probably have changed considerably since Shimano bought the GLoomis company. Certainly the manufacturing perspective has changed as compared to when the company was privately owned.

Since you live somewhere in the Anchorage area (I assume by your ak.net address), go into any of the Fred Meyer or Wal-Mart sport fishing section, and check out the quality of the rods on display. While the wife is shopping in the kids and ladies undergarment section, I whittle the time away checking out the quality of the factory-made rods. While I don't expect the quality to be on par with more expensive and better-crafted rod lines in other sports stores, or custom-built rods, it is interesting to check the finished product out.

Patrick,

Thats ironic, cuase I have and you are right sir. I remember when the trim bands on some old St. Croix's were "paint". Don't you wish there was a place in Anchorage or AK that had a good supply of rod building items? I know the guys at Mt View as I worked there for many years, but we need a good reatiler up here! Have a great day!

Paul

I guess I'd give anyone kudos if they have a steady enough hand to paint the trim bands. Geesh, it's easy enough to do the right way, once you get the hang of it. lol!

For Paul Rotkis and anyone else living in the Anchorage, Alaska area:

I support Mt View (in Anchorage) and 3 Rivers Tackle Shop (Wasilla) as my local rod building suppliers. Between the two, I'm pretty satisfied with prices and selections. I also think it is important to support my local, small businesses in light of all of the large sports retailers setting up shop. Once the little guys are gone, it's hard to get them back. Paul, with winter in full swing here, if you ain't snowmachining, you ought to stop by 3 Rivers and check 'em out. For a little store, they've got quite and interesting foray of knick-knacks and photos to look at.

Patrick