This is the second time I've had a problem using Micro Set. I applied a coat of finish (Flex Coat) at 6pm last night to a rod. This morning at 9am I applied one brush stroke of Micro Set, applied my decal and within 5 minutes the finish started bubling and cracking. Now I get to strip off the finish, destroy my feather inlays, probably damage the rod finish, and start all over - errrrrrrrr. Any ideas

Oh yeah, I was able to pull off the decal and place it back on it's paper. I also rinsed (using a brush) the decal with fresh water to try and neutralize the Micro Set. Can I use the decal again or do I have to get another one made.

WOW! What kind of finish? Anythin else on top of the finish? Where did you put the Set? Did you take the Micro Set out of the right bottle? Was the brush sitting in a acetone or alcohol cleaning cylinder? Did the finish crack over the inlays? Was this a devoted brush or could it possibly have had something else on it? I can not imagine this set of curcumstances caused by such a weak surfactant. Would love to see a picture. Hope you can figure out what happened to cause this - I have a hard time with finish and Micro Set ending up with this result.

Flex Coat High Build. I have two brushes, one for Micro Sol, one for Micro Set, no Acetone. When it starts bubling it reacts down to the base, softens the finish and can effect (I think) the underlying finish. I've just spend the last hour ripping off the underlying finish and wraps down to the blank. The blank finish was effected in a couple of spots so I get to do a nice long underwrap and then start again. I do use acetone for thinning (as directed in the FlexCoat doco) Flex Coat but I don't put in much (usually 4 drops in a 5ml mix). I am thinking that the finish hadn't set up enough (14 hrs is usually ok) or that some Acetone hadn't fully evolved off of the finish. The weird thing is that materials and techniqued haven't changed much this year so I didn't do anything on this rod different than previous rods. I'm wondering if the Micro Sol reacts with acetone in a way detrimental to the epoxy.

I personally dont see a reason to have acetone in the rod shop.Although flex-coat says to thin it
I never had a reason to wish it was thinner.If the finish sets up before the acetone evaporates
it may react to the microset but I`ll let the experts say for sure.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

Steve,
I use Micro-set to seal my decals before I put them on the rod itself. The problem I ran into was I put the decal on the rod first then a couple coats of MS to seal it before applying finish. I didn't have any problems with the finish but the end result was that the MS left a permanent stain around the decal which was very obvious on black thread. I now print the decal apply two coats of MS and put the decal on in a matter of minutes. So far no more problems with it. Randy.

I brush Micro set on the blank or wrap on top of the finish, apply the decal right away, then brush more on the decal to smooth it out good. I generally, but not always brush Micro Sol in about 1/2 hour so (not really necessary but I have it and it makes me feel better) . I have probably done this a couple hundred times and never had, or heard of what you are getting. I hope you come up with an answer and let us know.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Mike, I apply the decal right away too. I was in the process of repositioning the decal (with a water wet brush) when I noticed a cloudy appearance. So I stopped, removed the decal and dried things up. Anyhow, I posted a picture of what it looks like [www.rodbuilding.org] . If any of you have a clue then let me know. Since it's a wetting agent I'm thinking that something in the epoxy mix hadn't dried, chemically reacted enough, or hadn't degassed enough and the wetting agent allowed the still weak bonds to break (an hence the mottled surface). Weird thing is that the mottled pattern goes down to the blank.

Steve,

My best guess is that the finish coat wasn't quite cured enough before you applied the Micro-Set. A lot of these setting compounds are alcohol based and can swell/crack a partially cured epoxy finish. Best bet is to wait a little longer or apply some mild heat to increase cure of the finish before applying the decals. You could making some test strips and expose to the Micro-Set solution over a time sequence to see where the critical time might be if this is the case. Keep in mind that the cure rate will be temperature sensitive.

mark

Goin Fishn Early ! Had to post before I could go to sleep!

RSI ( Rodbuilders Scene Investigates)

Micro Set Forensics

Your earlier post possibly held the secret to your mystery. You mentioned a feather was involved. I am assuming you placed the feather with CP (water based) probably Flexcoat.

Those nasty little feathers have a habit of sticking their ends straight up. If you have only one feather tip that protruded through the coat of Flexcoat finish that would be enough to "wick " water completely through the structure of the feather when contacted by Micro Set. This would allow an aqueous phase to penetrate under the "continuous" layer of overlying epoxy. It would immediately turn the thread cloudy and a probable milky white splotchy mess.

Micro Set is a non ionic surfactant that makes surfaces preferentially water wet. It is designed to penetrate and spread out to make all surfaces it can find water wet. Take one of your feathers and just touch the tip with Micro Set and watch it spread throughout.

The only way that Micro Set can do any harm to an epoxy finish is if it can find a path way to get under it.

Ham & Egg Biscuits at 3:00 am.

On Water at 6:00 am

Limit of Specs by 8:00 am

Clean Fish 10:00 am

Back Home 2:00 pm ( 154 miles one way - through destroyed New Orleans - no camp since Katrina )

Will be curious to see if there is a better explanation!

Gon Fishn

Bill, except for the feather I think you're right. The feather inlay was opposite of where I was applying the decal and the finish above the feather didn't deteriorate. I think that the finish although dry to the touch hadn't cured enough. I believe the Micro Set found a surface imperfection, penetrated through and did it's magic. Oh well, I just had to lay down a base thread color, add a bit of weave on top, and reapply a finish.

Based on Steve's original question I think he may have used a sticker instead of an actual decal, this based on the fact he said he was able to remove the "decal" and put it back on the paper. I personally have never had a problem with Micro-Set or Micro-Sol with any finish, including Flex-Coat (unthinned), although I now use Thread Master. I think there may be a compatibility issue with the acetone used to thin the finish and the sticker's adhesive. Micro-Set & Sol serve no purpose for applying stickers and may indeed create more problems. They do however work very well for decals.

Regards,
David



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2006 11:51AM by David Wells.