TRYING to get over my hate of two-part epoxy finishes. Not having too much luck I am afraid.

Just finished my first somewhat complicated wrap and decided to just go for it. Measured my epoxy, mixed it carefully, warmed it gently, applied it liberally and let her spin.

The subject line says it all. Tried flaming the wraps to no avail....SIGH...Luckily it is one of my personal rods....and a beater at that.

Nobody to really blame but myself. Building on a budget. Sewing thread, dilute white glue and Future acrylic as a color preserver, two part hi-build epoxy finish from a craft store, the works. Hope to be able to gently sand smooth and apply a second coat of finish to cover up a couple of bare patches and call it good. Won't fix the bubbles though. Going through the archives as well to get a fresher view on things.

The bare spots (finish gaps) are most likely due to me having some sort of contamination on my hands but as I am single...SOMEBODY has to clean house.

Looks like I had best switch to darker colors and stick with Spar Varnish until I get my technique down. I think a little practice on some thread color sticks is in order and I have been putting them off for too long.

Anybody know a good Voodoo Witch Doctor that would be willing to put on a mask and slap around a couple of chickens for me? Have to make this epoxy curse go away SOMEHOW.

I am presently experimenting with a laquer clear coat as a thread finish with some encouraging results for guide wraps but it has issues as well when it comes to longer wraps.

Pray For Me!

Derek L. McMaster
Rohnert Park, CA

Born to Fish, FORCED to Work

Derek,

You're doing everything you're not suspose to do/use! No wonder you have poor results. Praying won't help, reading WILL.

Contact Andy Dear on the left of the page "Lamar Fishing" get some rod building thread, some threadmaster finish, follow his instructions and after your next build/wrap you can EAT that chicken for dinner :)


DR

True, using other products besides the tested and proven products designed specificly
for rod building is going to cause many headaches. However, if no one is brave enough
or inquizitive enough to at least try some other things and methods no matter how wierd
how then can new things be brought into the light. Remember when SEWING thread was
a NO NO ?

Much better to try those strange products and ideas on test sticks though instead of a rod
project even if it IS a beater as you put it Derek.

Would have liked it much better if you just posted the products and methods used along
with the results obtained ( good or bad ) and then stated your still in the testing phase
and would just have to accept the condition of the BEATER rod as test results rather than
whine about the results you did get and hope for a magic chicken to save you. LOL!
( just giving you a hard time before someone who is not your friend really fires at you)
I think I can get away pulling your chain a bit. LOL!


Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

The problem with most sewing threads is that they have a silicon lubricant added to the thread. You may have cheated on the cost of materials. But it cost you time and labor. Only if I were repairing a old bamboo rod would I use a varnish. You well find out the varnish well get flaky and start chipping off before the fishing season is over. At one time Elmers glue was used by some rod builders to color seal thread. but that was before epoxy finishes. Hey don't let Raymond pull your chain. Anyone who has been building rods for over 25 or 30 years has done what you have done, it is called a learning curve. Just read, learn and experiment. We all made mistakes when we first started. By the way I am known as the worst speller on this site.
Good Wraps Bob

Been there, done that.

The least expensive components of rod building are thread and finish. Why skimp on it? Buy the correct materials, you won't be cursing 2-part finishes ever again.

Dave

I seriously doubt that you got " a two part high build finish from a craft store ". What you probably got has only a small rsemblance to the products used by builders as a thread covering on rods.

Lets give a little breakdown on the thread and such I used.

Madeira Polyneon- 40wt yellow and two shades of Orange
Sulky Rayon- 30wt Black and Orange
Coates & Clark Trilobal Metallic Pearl
Generic Sz 69 Black Nylon Thread- This stuff is getting trashed.

I wrap several threads at a time and use my fingers for tension. That may be my biggest problem as I have somewhat greasy skin even though I do was my hands almost constantly when I wrap. The kraft glue I use I get from my sister who is SERIOUSLY into scrapbooking. It sets much clearer and harder than the Elmers I was using. I have used Future as a semi-CP for quite a while and the only real problem I have with it is that it darkens the thread a little too much for my taste when used in lighter thread colors. The craft glue may be major issue # two as this was the first time I used it with an epoxy top coat. I also may have not let the cp dry properly before applying the epoxy. There is a slightly foggy caste to the ferrule wrap on this rod which indicates that. I usually use Spar Varnish as my finish coat as previously stated. I have no durability issues with Spar, and I fish my gear hard. As I am also rebuilding a lot of old rods, it is more period correct to use it. The yellowing issue @#$%&, but actually increases appeal on some blank and thread colors.

I have a problem with patience I am afraid. Which is why I purchase the thread and finishes I do. Sewing thread USED to be a total no-no, MOST have lubricants, per the manufacturer, Coates & Clark Trilobal thread is not supposed to and I am experimenting with it. Soft nylon threads are also not supposed to either but have proven to be difficult to find in realistic spool sizes. Rayon thread is frowned upon, but according to Ray......His dad uses it regularly. What is his email address Ray?

The epoxy I used, is a generic, hi-build, pour-on, polymer coating manufactured by ETI in Fields Landing, CA. An 8oz set (8oz of each) is less than $10 so I was hoping I could make it work. It was carefully measured, mixed, and put on my coffee mug warner on low heat where it seemed to degas quite well. I did apply it with a brush, but you should see how RAY treats his finish and gets away with it .....lol. Experience does count...I guess. I have used the epoxy before with few problems, so my finger again begins to point to the kraft glue cp, the possibility that it did not let it dry long enough, and my own damn greasy fingers. The thicker size nylon thread I used is getting trashed as it rather obviously seemed to repel the epoxy .

Apologize for hte spelling (that one is for you Billy) issues if any but the coffee has not quited kicked in yet.

Ray's ribbing doesn't bother me a bit Bob...we get along pretty good. Besides..........I know where he lives, what he drives, and have a well established reputation of being a VERY creative practical joker. One co-worker once found that his car had changed color from red to neon lime green while he was at work........Sigh, those were the days.



Derek L. McMaster
Rohnert Park, CA

Born to Fish, FORCED to Work

Two things I noticed is that you heated the finish and you say you applied it liberally and let it spin.

First off...don't heat the finish! This will help in releasing the bubbles from mixing, but it will also cause it to set up faster than it would w/o heat being applied. The faster your finish sets up the less time bubbles have to escape the wrap.

Second, it is ok to apply your finish liberally...BUT...you need to let the rod sit stationary and remove all the excess you just put on! The thicker the finish the harder it will be for the bubbles to rise to the surface and pop.

For the bare spots it is probably a combination of: contamination, oily skin (always wash hands with warm water before and during thread work), coated sewing machine thread, and using a lackluster CP. These things have an EASY remedy...use the proper tools for the job!

You'll be alright. This has probably taught you a valuable lesson.

Jay



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2006 08:03PM by Jay Lancaster.

Derek;
Enjoy those chickens, BBQ of course, and save dem bones; but wash your have afterwards!!! LOL
Just another practice sesion as I see it. Where would we be without a little creative thinking and tinkering!
Hope to see the outcome soon!
Fred


Fred Crum
Dixon, Ca.

Hi there. Sounds like your resin is Envirotex, either as a generic house (private) brand, or straight up branded envirotex. That was the resin of choice for many a rod builder until the 'dedicated' products began to show up on the market.
And, just like all resins, there is a point on the polymerization curve, where it just 'goes off'. I enjoyed using this resin for a long time, but struggled with the cure curve. Pot life was long, but the curve was all screwed up. It took too long to get tack free, and in a dusty environemnt, not a good thing.
Like experts and manufacturers have long said: ambient temperature is very important. Anything below 70F for most resins, courts many reasons for unstaisfactory results.
Mix the resin, and pour into an aluminum foil-lined paper plate, to allow the resin to spread out a bit, and de-gas before you apply it. Do a flood coat, and I mean a real Noah's Ark thing, and most of the bubbles, if still there after degassing on the foil) will spill and fall off the wraps. Do not apply any heat to the wraps until about 20 minutes after the last wrap is coated. Then, a light pass with a bic lighter turned down low, and held under the wrap. I'll light up, and hold my hand under the flame, starting at 10 inches up, then slowly lower, until I can start to feel the heat. I'll find the distance where I can keep my hand there indefinitely. (Between 5-8 inches, depending on the height of the flame, and the room air temp.) It's a balancing act: too much heat, and the wrap will harden almost immediatly, from the excess heat. Too little heat, and the resin will not lose enough viscosity to release the bubbles.
Bald spots on the wraps, have been diagnosed: the culprit, usually, is body oils, not the thread proper. You can reduce that with a wash in a good dish soap, like blue dawn, etc. I just wash some of the dishes in the sink, dry off, do some wraps, then go back and wash some more dishes.