I recently made an offer to a rod builder to trade him a new Flexcoat Four rod dryer in return for him wrapping and finishing 20 rods for me. I do all the gluing up and furnish all the materials all he provides is labor. I usually pay 20.00 for wrapping and finishing so this is 400.00 worth of labor for a machine that retails for 400.00, the advantage as I see it is that he doesn't have to come with cash which is what the barter system is all about. What do all you rod builders think? Jesse

I wouldn't do it

Dear Mr. Jesse Buky - It seems this fellow prefers the CASH system to the BARTER system, and doesn't really recognize the value of the Rod Dryer to earn him even more money in the future. Nor does he seem to recognize the value to himself of establishing and maintaining an on-going business relationship with you.

Some people just can't recognize a good thing when they see it.

Jesse, as you discovered last February, and I am discovering as I have started working again, life is too short to spend too much time on a path that ultimately leads to nowhere.

Do the math. Re-shuffle your cards,
Lay-out your checkers. Re-set your chess board.
Keep looking for a CO-operator, not just an operator.
Best Wishes, Jesse. -Cliff Hall



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2006 04:41PM by Moderator.

If you think it's worth it, then it is.

Generally, I prefer bartering over straight cash. I get a lot of pleasure trading parts or services with other builders over cash. Much more personal. And when I can get away with it, I'd rather accept trade over cash when I build a rod for someone. If I were on the other end, I know I'd jump on the offer.

Jesse, If I lived near you I would be wrapping right now. I love to barter. I have bartered with my dentist, electrian, tile floor layers and air conditioning men. It might take me a week to wrap those rods but if I didn't, I could look back, my time gone, and nothing to show for it. I think you made that guy an excellent offer.

for you yes, for him no.
You'd never find anybody in my area willing to wrap and finish rods for $20. I love to barter also, but it has to be a win-win for both sides. This doesn't appear to be that. Maybe you can get Billy to wrap for you at those prices......lol

Hard to say, Jim. If I had nothing constructive to do at the moment it would be a choice between knocking out a pile of rods for some spare change, or watching mindless TV for nothing. I might be tempted to do it for the cash, maybe, especially if it were winter. But for a wrapper or lathe worth the same amount of $$, there would be no question at all. Reason being is that I have a hard time buying things for myself. If I work for cash, it goes into the bank and that's it. If I work for stuff, I get stuff that I will never buy myself, making it an even better bargain. (When I decided I needed a new Tilley hat, it took me 6 months to actually force myself to do it... my wife was shocked that I rushed into that decision as quickly as I did).

Working for locations of secret fishing holes that the rest of the city hasn't yet discovered... priceless!

Go for it, assuming this person is mentally able and over 18. I'm sure you can buy the wrapper for $240 or so wholesale so you're really paying him $12 per rod out of your pocket. Why wouldn't you do it, especially if he's willing to wrap that many rods for the wrapper. Worst case, he realizes you got the better deal and asks for more next time. And, like you say, his time may not be worth near as much to him as his cash so it may well be a good deal for him. Assume that he can make up his own mind and take him at his word. I love to barter and do it every chance I get. It allows a lot more flexibility in a transaction.

Pull back your original offer and offer him 10 Bones at the current retail price. Hold off on releasing the Bones until you see the completed rods. If they are not up to "snuff" turn the Bones' Baby Daddy loose on him! Just do not allow him to reopen negotiations offering a years contract for weekly delivery of Strawberry Shakes as his end of the deal.

Gon Tradin

Jesse has already seen my work. I'm trying to get more $$$ for wrapping rods, and some of you aren't helping any. LOL. As I was leaving his shop today I told him I'd wrap 10 rods for that drier.......he was still mumbling long after I was gone. Jesse has been a BIG help to me as far as assembling and wrapping rods go, and I am grateful for that. We're still in negotiation on the number of rods.

Jesse;
If you have seen his work and it is up to your standards, go for it. If that is what you are presently paying to have the work done, doesn't make sense to pay him more. I guess at this point it's up to him to decide if the value is enough to agree with the offer.

Cliff;
My question to you is- DID YOU EVEN BOTHER TO READ JESSE'S POST BEFORE YOU OFFERED COMMENTS?

Bruce take him a Super Size Extra Thick Egg Added With Fresh Strawberries and he will give you the wrapper!

Bill, I'll do that as soon as I finish the four rods I'm currently wrapping for him as payment on my last barter.

that's funny. i mean, both of you on this board.

if that wasn't the case, and i have to say i don't build professionaly at all, i might venture to guess that $20 a rod is kind of low. and for argument's sake, i'd have to say the barter system can be very helpful but not always. if the wrapper you were referring to had been bartering a lot recently, wth the impending christmas season approaching, cash in hand (time used for cash paying clients) would be more valuable than potential use of the dryer in the future.

is it worth it or not? that's up to the person being solicitated.

eric
fresno, ca.

Jesse forgot to mention that the only time I would use a four rod drier is when I'm wrapping rods for him.

I just could not stand it any longer. As Paul Harvey says - Now for the REST of the story! Would you consider wrapping a rod like this for $ 20. This is an example of some of Jesse's finer inlays on a fly rod! Barter - PoooH! Jesse has completely violated one of his Covenants of the Rod - Cash Rules!

[www.rodbuilding.org]

I will now wait patiently for his firing of the cannon from the Beach Hide Out!

Gon Fishn



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2006 08:31AM by Bill Stevens.

Well guys, if I may venture into murky waters and join the fray. I have had aquite a few years experience working in a barter/cash market for rods.
I virtually fitted out my house building rods on a barter system, and I rarely had to pay much for car maintenance !!! I had many great customers who like me were cash strapped, but could offer services etc. i got many jigs, rigs, racks and machinery custom made from variouse customers that helped me build up a quite complete rod building workshop. Inturn, that helped make me more efficient. But it all worked on a buddy system-mates rates and wholesale, its how the system worked. I worked cheap for their cheap services and/ or/with products-It kept me busy, up to date, and allowed me the quantity and frequency of work to progress in experience, skill,and services. I also benefited from a greater inventory of guides and components that came my way as a result. I had many satisfied clients spreading the word for me and it grew exponentially with every rod. I may have been one of the few rod builders in the UK who made a living out of rod building alone.
However, when it came to the tackle industry, and building rods in quantities, volume costs came into play-I remember building 300, 18' salmon fly rods for a swedish customer-they provided the parts, and I put them together-for a fiver a piece (about US $7.50 at the time). With diligence, and hard work the job was completed. It took a month, on my own. I also built 300 special order 12'6"' Zziplex tip tornadoes, full spec, including full length closed diamond wraps (18" if I remember, but all the same pattern) on the butt. By the end I could do these diamond wraps in fifteen minutes a piece! I was only earning 9 pounds a rod for a job that I would normally charge 30 for to a retail customer. As a result I was building loads of huge tournament surf rods with all sorts of wraps on the butt section( the handle section if you like) These butt sections were usually about 1.5 inces in diameter, ans the wraps were usually 18 inches plus in length-I even did a few full butt length, about 4ft-hideouse I know, but thats what the customer wanted. I was earning a living from something I loved being envolved in.
The gains that I had from the increased frequency of practice with skills, the increased of experience , and services I could offer all came from a bartered rod building lathe and dryer that I paid for dearly in terms of labor, but I inherited a world of rod building and experience I would never have been able to become so envolved with if I did not get that machine !
I must add that I was a rod building nut, I lived and breathed it, but the UK is not the place to be a jobbing rod builder, and labor is too expensive, and the market won't stand the proper costs . I eventually ended up building 10 production fly rods a day, and doing custom builds and repairs as well, often untill the wee small hours of the morning 7 days a week, but could not afford to hire help.
I am now the owner of a company in the far east where I live,with labor cheap enough to be able to hire 10 people for the cost of one westerner. I am happy, fulfilled and I love the work I do. I appreciate the peple working for me and I pay them well above the average for their service, and they give me a great deal of their time, effort and loyalty willingly.
I am not building rods now(exept for my self) but I am still envolved in the fishing tackle industry-I support my family resonably comfortably, and I give stability, pride and hope to another 20 plus families who have members of therir family working for me.
The point is this, for me this is success at least to a good degree, and it happened because I bartered a rod bulding lathe. But that was my choice because I felt that I needed it, and wanted it to help me go where I wanted to go.
Jesse and Bruce have to work it out for themselves based on the merrits of their individual needs and what they want out of the deal-but for me, I would have gone for it, cause I can dry more rods !!!

Sorry for the long drivel, but I feel there is point illusrated that the deal is worth what ever benefit it can get for you in the long run !

Very well said Earl!!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..