I've been looking and see a lot of info on where and how many guides to use, But not much on size.
How does one determine the optimum sizing? I'm working on a surfcasting basterdized rod for a Penn 525 Mag.
I can do the quessing game by using anouther as a reference, but really want to know the correct or better way of figuring this out for myself (if I knew how).
Can someone start me off in the right direction here? (is there a link somewhere that I missed on this?)
Thank you,
Gary

Hi Gary,

The term surf casting rod has different meanings depending on geographic area. To me, surf rods start at 13', for others it might be 12' and still others consider a 9' rod to be a surf rod.

Based on the information given, we can provide only limited help.

Since you are using a Penn 525, we can assume you will be using about 20# main line and a sinker in the 5 to 8 ounce range.
This tells us that you will be using a shock leader in the 60 to 80# range.

The smallest guides and tip top that will pass a 60# shock knot will be a size 12. You can also use the size 12 and 80# shock leader only if your shock leader is a good quality small diameter line.

The largest guide size is determined by your reel. For a 525 a ring size of 25 should work fine. The size of the ring has two effects. First, the stand will be taller and second the top of the larger ring will be higher. This will put the ring into the path of your line.

So, I recommend you purchase an ample number of guides and do some trial layouts as you would in constructing any conventional rod.

Here's a wild guess for a 12 to 13' blank:

25, 20, 16, 16, 12, 12, 12, 12 tip top

The spacing and sizes will be determined by the dynamics of your blank.

I use alconites for most of my surf rods and depending on power use either BMNAG or a combination of BMNAG and BLNAG guides. The tip top should be a BMNAT.

Be sure to tape your guides in place and do some casting prior to wrapping your blank. As mentioned, the shock knot must easily pass through your guides.

Hope this helps,
Don

The last two issues of RodMaker have comvered this pretty well. Most people use too many sizes, because I guess, they feel they have to somehow make use of every size offered. I'm just glad the manufacturers don't offer even more sizes or we'd really have a mess.

There is little reason to ever use more 3 different sized guides on the same rod. Using more sizes does not create a smoother or straighter line path. In fact, the opposite is usually the result. Look at Don's example above: 25, 20, 16, 16, 12, 12, 12, 12. Certainly it will work, but so will: 25, 16, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12. And... probably better and at less weight.

Guides need to be large enough to do the job they need to do, but no larger than necessary. A lot more information on this is available in the articles.

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Thank you Don,
I guess I really need to clarify this a bit more.
The blank is a very old 4 digit Lamiglas fiberglass model (I have 2) that I bought new 43 yrs. ago as a kid.
I feel it is the same blank as the newly numbered Lamiglas model No. MB 108 3M, fiberglass mooching & live bait, 9 ft., 1 pc., 1-3 oz., with a .935 butt and a #7 tip. By "basterdizing what is meant is I added length to the butt section so it is now 10 ft. 10 1/2 in. butt to tip. (I know, I need a spanking for adding so much butt. However, I believe it'll work for me just fine. Try and find a 11 ft glass 1-3 oz. "soft" blank.) The Penn will be expected to be mounted approx. 22 inches from the butt, however, at this point it's only an "about" location.
In comparison, this is obviously a light surf rod for conventional of this length. The intent is to throw soft baits like clam worms, clams, etc. along with light 2-2 1/2 oz. plugs & 1 1/4-2 1/2 oz. bucktails, and most definately live eels in the 12 - 14" range without weight.
My intended targets are Stripers, Blues, Flounder, and Weakfish.
Line test is expecting to be 17-20# and I seriously hope NOT to need a shock leader. This rod being so "soft" and all, I feel I can get away without one. Would think if I'm whipping it out there hard enough to need one I'd be ripping off my soft baits? Weights willbe light sputniks that I'll be making myself in the 1-2 1/2 oz. range.
Maybe "Surfrod" is a wrong name? While I willbe using it in the surf, it'll also be used off jetties and in rivers, bays, and saltwater ponds.
this has been my personal favorite all-arounder for years until the guides wore out (thus how I accquired a second one). Always felt that if it was a bit longer it wouldbe perfect. So, I'm doing it. If it fails,,, I've learned something. Isn't that why people start building rods to begin with? Can't find what they want and figure "what the heck? Do-it!
But what size guides and top for this contraption? (LOL)
Thank you,
Gary

Tom Kirkman Wrote:>
> 25, 20, 16, 16, 12, 12, 12, 12. Certainly it will
> work, but so will: 25, 16, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12,
> 12. And... probably better and at less weight.

While I do agree with what you aer saying, I have run into a couple of instances where the 25-16-12 was the wrong setup compared to teh traditional 25-20-etc et up. Specifically, a long Glass rod with a deep prabolic bend, the drop from a 25 to a 16 is too steep, and what ends up happeneing is the first 16 after the 25 the line won't touch unless the blank is bent full, or it does touch and when the blank is bent full teh line touches teh blank. Another blank which had this exact problem is the Calstar 7465M, that was due ot the odd way teh blank bent out towards the tip and shut off 100% in the butt.

Tom,
That's it!
I figured what wouldbe in the mag would be over my head, and more for the profesional builder.
RIGHT NOW I'm going to see if I can get the issues mentioned and sign-up!
This was supposed to be a quick fix-up, one time only deal! The more I investigate,,,, the more I like!
So far, I'm building a lathe (started), drier (completed), rod wraper (completed) and my simple "fix-up" has turned into a major rebuild! And I think I'm looking at a couple of more (son in-law really, really needs a new rod for Christmas! - even if he don't know it - LOL)
Think I'm getting addicted? (always been a "tinkerer" - being a tool and diemaker / tooling, fixture designer, it just falls into a relaxing pace)
Thanks.
Gary

Billy,

I was just using that set up as an example - obviously each rod has to be set up for the reel, line and desired use. Still not much reason to use so many guide sizes. 25 - 20 and then 12's might be the ticket. Or it could be that 16's are as small as a person might go if they were using shock leader knots.

.........

Gary,

RodMaker is suitable for persons at all levels of rod building. We have a beginner's column, a tools column, a Q&A section, and many, many feature articles each issue. Some are very technical, others are not at all technical. The wealth of ideas alone is bound to benefit anyone who enjoys building rods. Go to any rod building website and read up on ideas like flocking, powder coating, simple spirals, common cents, etc., etc., etc. All these things trickled down from the pages of RodMaker and few offer the in depth information and instructions that the original articles contained.

........

RodMaker = Done. (back issues 9/3 & 9/4 plus sub.)
Just got the mail,,, and it isn't here yet. (S)