"Unique" = a rod you have plans to do something a little different than you have in the past. IT varies depending on builder and the level, but I'd like to hear from ALL levels, not just guys going way above and beyond.

OK, here's what I'm wondering - how much time do you spend thinking of what you are going to do on a rod. IT might be choosing a new wood for an insert, a new wrap pattern, feather inlay combo, guide wrap colors, guides for rod, etc.

I find myself spending ian excessive amount of time planning my rods. For example, it may take me 6 hours to cut up and glue an inlay, but comng up with a "theme", findin gthe image I want to use, and sizing, color combo - literally takes me weeks. When I do a butt wrap, I'll play around with several patterns in VisualWRap, changing colors, tinkering this or that. No exagerration, I'll spend an hour or so a day for a week deciding on the "perfect" wrap before I even start.

My best time to come up with ideas is talking to fellow Rodbuilders. I had a friend come over the other night for 20 minutes, and he gave me some ideas for an "XXX"-rated rod I want to build....he's worse than I am, lol. I had a ntepoad and scribbled down what his idea was. I also get a lot of ideas seeing others work, and speaking to other builders. Specifically Mike Joyce, we push each other with ideas further and further each time we speak...but also talking with Sean Endres & my frind Victor Ghini who doens't post). It's nice to have a network of guys to bounce ideas off, and get their opinions on new ideas (and steal some of theirs, lol)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2006 11:04PM by Billy Vivona.

I haven't been building for very long, but I can relate to your fixation/compulsion!

I would have to say it has depended on the rod and who or what purpose I am building it for, especially if the build is for a friend or family member. That being said I guess I probably plot and plan for a couple of weeks before getting started, and modify my work as I go along when I see what things are looking like in real life. Maybe from conception to finish I would guess I have about a month in on each rod. I probably fixate the most on color combinations.

"A bad day of fishing is ALWAYS better than a good day at work."

Blessings,
Dave

I spend about 1/2 my work day thinking about the next rod.Some rods come quick and others are a work in progress.Usually once I`m set on something the new RM Magazine shows up and blows the plans to smitherines.I contemplate mostly on butt wraps and some times spend a few hours on VW trying several color combos.If I were to have VW on the work pc I`m confident nothing will get done work related.Part of the fun is thinking about it .it also relaxes the mind to just think about it.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

I've only done about 80 rods so far. I've found the planning of a wrap is the most time consuming part.
I've only repeated one wrap, and then I did a pair in reversed patterns in the same colors for my cousin and a friend of his.
If there were not the thought put into the designs, it would not be a uniquie work, would it?
I think of it as time well spent, but then, I don't do this for a living...

FRed, funny you mention work - I've been paid SO MUCH y my job to work on creating VW patterns and finding &cutting up inlay atterns over teh past couple of years, lol! Seriously, if I had to do all that at home my rods would stink.

I look at things other than fishing rods. Go to your local golf pro shop and look at the colors and patterns on the golf bags. Keep a notepad in your car and when you see a billboard with an interesting series of colors in the advertisement, jot them down.Notice the packaging on products in the grocery store, drug store, discount store, etc. Note the patterns and colors you see there. When you walk through the tool department of the hardware store, notice what type of materials are being used on the handles. Which ones seem functional and which ones don't. Look at other implements that are made for hand use - how are they designed and which ones seem to be universally held in high regard for how well they work and hold up.

In the end, the criteria for a good fishing rod is similar to the same criteria for a good lawn mower, or garden tool, or lacrosse stick, etc. What looks good on a fishing rod is also going to be something that looked good on some big advertising company's latest series of ads for a soft drink, or new automobile, or line of clothing, etc.

...........

Billy.....its alot of fun bouncing ideas back and forth. Have to blame this behavior on you and the NERBS.

Just got back from hiking (seriously...lol) with family and freinds. I saw some great birch trees that were dying to have their bark removed, some fantastic color combos on a little rainbow caught at 1800 ft above sea level (i need a pack rod) also some color combos on skis and snowboards at a pre-season tent sale. Was I thinking about my next rod? Probablly.

(the special white bumper guides you shipped are going to work great!)

Mike

NERB that types with a bar of Ivory soap in his mouth.

Billy,

I hope this doesn't hijack your thread - it's not my intention. I think we're a lot alike with regard to developing uniqueness to our work. I can obsess over the "look" that I want to develop and can deliberate over it for days...maybe weeks. My goal is to present the buyer with a superior quality rod that is attractive and one-of-a-kind unique. I borrow some ideas from the photo section of this board: taking the creative ideas of others then tweaking them to suit my purposes. As far as my own work - my taste runs to the conservative and I create rods with an appearance of what I like to call "understated elegance." I don't use much in the way of metallic threads or bright neon colors and most of the compliments that I receive about my work is the beautiful color combinations that I use (and I frequently accent them with feather inlays - keep in mind that most of my work is fly rods). I get many of the ideas for some of my color combinations from people in the apparel industry. I make a mental note of particuarly attractive and unusual color combinations from articles of clothing and try to figure out what combinations of wrapping thread and finishes would imitate it then I set out to experiment until I can duplicate it as nearly as I can. I imagine that some women may wonder why I'm staring at their clothing - it's not ALWAYS what's under it! LOL. I find that work uniforms - especially the shirts worn in fast-food and grocery stores - are a good source of inspiration for color combos.

Here's where I hope I don't hijack the thread because I think your post is an excellent one. I'm constantly amazed at the beautiful thread art that I see from so many of the folks who post photos here. Some of it is absolutely stunning but I don't do it - there's absolutely no way that I could adequately compensate myself for the amount of time that it takes to perform that kind of work. I can see doing it for the self satisfaction or if it were my own rod but to charge someone else for the hours that it takes - I just can envision that. I know this has been discussed here before and was written about in one of the RM Magazine articles a while back regarding pricing for custom work. I frequently use feather inlays in conjunction with the unique color combinations to give my work that "custom" appeal. Feather inlays are not difficult or particuarly time consuming (or expensive) to do and I find people are more willing to pay for what I need to charge. I can't do that with complicated, time consuming thread weaves. Again, keep in mind that my work is mostly with fly rods and that most of my buyers are fly fisherman who are, perhaps, a little more conservative and traditional in their tastes than some; bright optic colors and lots of flash just wouldn't have much appeal.

Another opportunity to create the unique look in fly rods are unusual reel seat materials, exotic woods, and attractive patterns in the grips. I normally have these items made for me by others and purchase them but I'm giving serious thought to doing more of this type of work myself.

I will unashamedly borrow from someone else's creativity - I just don't duplicate it. Differentiating your work from someone else's, to me, is extremely desireable and if it takes a few weeks to settle on an idea - well, so be it.; I don't think that's unusual. When it comes to my "custom" work I want to make sure that my buyer has a rod unlike any other; a truly "custom" rod. If you're going to imitate a factory rod, why bother?

Just my $0.02.


Sam Stoner

Billy I will take you up on your offer to hear from ALL levels. Unique is not restricted to color, beauty and general aesthetic appeal. I fully understand that many builders build for self and friends or have a client base that will support with hard cash the visual qualities for top knotch artisans. My obsession is also aimed at fit, finish, strength, durability, quality, personalization and providing the right rod for the intended use. It is also very difficult to make 10 rods that behave identically with all of the qualities listed above in a reasonable amount of time. If those 10 rods are superior popping rods I would call them all unique even if they were all wrapped with black and silver thread.

Gon Fishn

Billy,
I am of the "What If" school of brainstorming. Art and design has always been a major interest of mine and I try to never limit the direction of connections my thinking might make. The joy of exploration is perhaps the most pleasing part of the process for me.
As for sources of color combinations I look to nature first. What I have learned through schooling and practice is that "seeing" is very much like "listening". It requires concentration. The practice is one of letting go of as many other concerns in the moment and engaging the visual elements without predermined expectations. Literally looking with "new eyes" in the peaceful stillness where nothing else matters. This is the "zone" in which creativity seems to flourish. The more we remove our own thoughts from the process the more we are able to receive new information. When I painted (pictures) this was my way of working. It was also the method most helpful in photography. In a way it is like emmersing oneself in a river of creativity and letting it direct you. Get still and float.,, and let the river of creative energy take you on it's magic carpet ride.

I am particularly overwhemed with the incomparable variety of color combinations in nature that one sees in close up views of even the most common items. How many browns and greens and highlights I will find in a single leaf depends as much on my concentration as much as the actual colors that are there.

Nature is endless in it's complexity and unsurpassed in its splendor. Whether in the coloration of an animal's coat or the tones of the most humble of stones. For me, nature is the mother load of all good design.

But from there, the mindful application of studious thought and experimentation, including the influence of the psychology of color and the constantly shifting emotional responses to visual stimuli , has created an entirely new sphere of understanding with regard to color and the human responses to it. The amount of intense thought and serious consideration in the selection of colors in advertising and product design is staggering. Fortunately we can choose for ourselves the level we wish to engage the topic of color; as well as the source we find most appealing or appropriate for the task at hand.

I am always thrilled to uncover a new discipline which reveals it's own unique palette I had not previously considered. Recently it was from a series of animated films by a Japanese filmaker. The economy of that craft forces a limited palette; so the colors are very carefully matched to yield the most pleasant combinations and variety with a minimum number of colors. Any added hue raises the cost of production exponentially.

I did not mean for this to be so long winded or to sound authoritative. The essense of the practice of creatuve exploration is to prepare oneself to have an open mind and then to receive, as opposed to actively "create" the wonder that is all around us. The act of creativity is one of receiving. Let that joy be your goal and you will never be at a loss for ideas. Let the child within be your guide.

Dave

Unique design doesn't necessarily have a thing to do with color and trim.

[www.rodbuilding.org]


Mike

NERB that types with a bar of Ivory soap in his mouth.

Stan - one of the things each person has to do is decide what they want to get out of Rodbuilding. If you want to make money, you cannot spend all teh time to do someo f teh things you are talking about and get compensated. The market is very small for people willing to pay - don't get me wrong they are out there. Personally, I rather come up with "concept" rods than build one after the other, my trade off is I have no customers, but I think i build some really cool rods which is what my goal.

Bill S - This is NOT a knock on you, just a general statement about some of us who seemingly focus more on the decorative aspect than teh functional - "My obsession is also aimed at fit, finish, strength, durability, quality, personalization and providing the right rod for the intended use." I couldn't agree more, and with me personally I also strive for these characteristics. IMO, what good is a rod if it looks great and feels and fishes like crap? In my quest for the perfect blanks, I've contacted a Manufacturer and had them ship me ALL their blanks for me to pull on them and decide what work for the type of fishing I do. I then shipped back all teh blanks I didn't find suitable. I wrapped several of the ones I thought were suitable, had a few of m friends use the rods and provide em with eedback - all but 1 were perfect fo rthe particular application, and now I know when I spend weeks designign the aesthetics of a rod, I'm gong to put them onto a blank which will perform as good as it looks.

PS - I spent 2 hours poring through on-line photos of pool cues. Wanna talk about insane wood inlays.

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I look at things other than fishing rods. Go to
> your local golf pro shop and look at the colors
> and patterns on the golf bags. Keep a notepad in
> your car and when you see a billboard with an
> interesting series of colors in the advertisement,
> jot them down.Notice the packaging on products in
> the grocery store, drug store, discount store,
> etc. Note the patterns and colors you see there.
> When you walk through the tool department of the
> hardware store, notice what type of materials are
> being used on the handles. Which ones seem
> functional and which ones don't.

I do the same, I have a notebook full of ideas for my next rod. Simple things like the stats of the blank that I need and the type of guides I'd like to use.

Recently it was my Dad's birthday and the wrapping paper we used to wrap his present had some unique colours that I haven't seen on any fishing rod (custom or factory). So, now I've also got a colour "swatch" from the wrapping paper as the colours for my next rod. To be different I was thinking of creating asymmetric guide wraps (in terms of where the different colours start and stop) to make it look like the way the wrapping paper was laid out.

I try not to go overboard, with matching weaves and such. I do look for good color combos and found that hot pink accent band in an black mainfield looks like a better red than candy apple. I come across lots of nice things. I just put a matching met braid around a winding check perimiter than matches an internal met highlight band. Weaves are nice but a bit to fancy I opt for a decently designed met. font matching label area, not fancy functional but still theme oriented, incorporating a fish decal, (hopefully the one you reverse engineered the rod and applicable fishing technique back from in engineering the rods inheriant features) personalizing with the clients name and the makers, date built , and the MFG lable for warranty pourposes.(ofte theyy paid a permium for that name and others want to see it) I try to set up a color theme, blank and woven graphite reel seat match or if not matcing the blank the mainfield thread color. The seat hood, winding check, hook keeper and guide frames, even rings on occasion, I try to match and then use this met color as bookending tags for each guide wrap. As for mainfield I want something that does not necessarily match the blank color but compliments it. And you must remember the buying public has up until recently been trained to accept stealth rods with few or no highlight bands (and if so only banded on the the butt sect.lol) matching mainfield thread wraps to the blank color and thats it for color planing. Not something so unique as well thought out and even at that the time spent in pre order calculation is more then I would care to spend if it did not produce such a shrap outcome with nothing really fancy all just efficient, form folows function with a little color cordinational theme.

I also have a couple of notebooks, pads of cocktail napkins, post it notes, etc. that are filled with ideas as they pop into my head. I have a couple of rods that I've been wanting to make for myself and I've been sketching and revising everything from the grips to the guide wraps for close to a year now. I've made and scrapped a couple of reel seats because they didn't look quite like I had planned and am working up a new modification on one now. The wraps are still up in the air, depending on which way I go with everything else. They are very much "works in progress", as well as a fly rod I want to make for myself, and I have about 6 grips sketched out now. I can plan myself to death.

Billy this is a very interesting thread you have got started here. Like you and most of the other guys I am thinking more and more with my planning of future rods. Sometimes before going to sleep I will be thinking about some new colours scheme or handle I want to build. This usually ends up with me getting out of bed and writing down the idea. The problem is when I go back to bed, the idea just keeps going round and round in my head. It is becoming the worst, yet best, addiction a person can have.

As I have progressed during the last few years I am getting more and more into setting a theme for the rod. This includes handles, fittings and wraps. I find I am getting as much enjoyment now out of my handle work as I get with my thread work. Due to where I live in the outback, I don't have too many other rodbuilders I can bounce ideas and techniques off. That's where this site has been great. People like you, Al Cinner, MJ, Sean, Doc, Mark Crouse and to many others to name have really set a tremendously high standard for others to follow. If we can all push our own limits there is are endless possibilities.

Someone here was talking about writing down colour combinations they had seen while driving around etc. I find a lot while watching different movies.One inparticular was the Last Samurai with Tom Cruise. In the movie, one of the main characters was wearing a Kimono in a deep maroon silk. In the maroon base colour was a really bright green. The whole thing really jumped out and grabbed me. I had to freeze the frame and replay it a few times I liked it that much. Other combinations which I find outstanding are in many flowers such as hibisuc and frangipani. The combo's are endless. Only time for us has an end.

I checked out the pool cue sites and some of the inlay work they are doing is remarkable. My wood working skills are not enough at this stage to attempt something of this nature. As much as I would love to try.

WARNING: Rod-building, and day-dreaming about it,
can become habit-forming, and may be hazardous to
other relationships. Participant discretion is advised.

"Addictive" is no exaggeration. That is one reason
I stopped rod-building for a long time some years ago.
All-consuming if you are not careful, and intensely
self-satisfying, a deadly combination. .. B)- ... -Cliff Hall.

My next rod will be the first that has a "real" theme. It's going to be basically a tribute rod to my Dad who passed away a couple years ago. 7' , 4-6lb Batson RX7 popping blank, should make an awesome panfish rod. Handle will be birch bark harvested from my parent's property - possibly a skeleton reelseat with more birch bark, or oak harvested from the property. I will be inlaying a 1930 Irish coin (Dad's birth year, and he was definitely an Irishman :-) into the buttcap. Playing with other ideas, some oddball stuff like taking sand from the beach on the property and creating an epoxy ramp for a winding check, then sprinkling sand into it as it cures (this needs to be experimented with!) I'm always thinking about this rod, kicking around ideas for it. Obviously, it will be a very personal rod for me.

I was delighted to see I'm not the only one who analyzes every detail and experiences lost productivity at work while thinking about the next project. I've come to accept the agonizing/fretting and, to put a positive spin on it, refer to it as "savoring the build". Start with the desired blank, then what thread color combo that I haven't seen before wiil be the holy grail, add in "meshing" the colors of feathers that I have on hand in the appropriate size for the blank, incorporating wood or burl cork into an attractive but not overly heavy grip, etc, etc, etc. Right now, I'm envisioning a rod that will require a fighting butt from one source, reel seat hardware from another, and grip from a third....postage and handling X 3, and thats just for the handle. Its time consuming, expensive, annoying, and enjoyable. All the time spent will, in the end, be better than doing something quick and not being satisfied with the result. It is a real bummer when you do put in the time and still aren't satisfied, though. Its just a microcosm of the rest of life...I've never met anyone who built a house and had no regrets when it was done.

I build rods mostly for myself and as gifts and do not surpass some of the great artisans on this site. But I believe I make pretty nice rods. One of the ways I like to make my rods unique is with the pieces wood I use.....I love the look of wood in reelseats and handles. While the practice of using wood is common I try to pick exceptional pieces to make it the focal point of the rod. I typical like more plain thread work.