I guess this is sort of a poll question. I was wondering what other rod builders thought were the most important things you can do to actually build a better rod. Better than factory off the rack rods. If you want to be able to show your customers just why your rods are better than what they get at the local sports shop or tackle store what are the things that you can really use and prove to be true advantages over factory rods. Am I wrong in thinking that added comfort by a nicer and better custom handle would be in the running? Or balancing the rod to make it less tiring to fish all day with? These are two things I concentrate on but wonder about the rest of you.

1- guides and casting performance

2- reel seat and handle

3- balance

4- custom touches for customer

I think that any good answer to your question would have to be broken down by rod type. At least to some degree, as some things are more important on certain rods than they are on others.

At any rate, I would say that the single most important thing you can do to truly improve a rod to a verifiable degree is to reduce the weight. No matter how good a rod is, if you make it lighter (without compromising the needed durability, of course) you will have a better fishing tool. This is true because of several things. One, a lighter rod is a more efficient rod. It will use more of your imparted energy to cast the lure or line, set the rod, recover, etc, and less of it to start and stop the rod. Generally, an overall lighter rod is also less tiring to fish, although balance or weight distribution can be equally important in this area.

I won't go into all the various ways to reduce weight. There are many, but at some point you've done all you can do within the confines of a blank having to have guides, wraps, finish, handle, etc. added in order to be of any use as a fishing rod.

Beyond that I'd agree that a comfortable handle is a priority and many commercially made rods are downright uncomfortable, at least to me. This is a great area for the custom builder to use in selling rods. If you have the expertise to make your own handles and grips, you can custom fit the handle to the individual customer.

Balancing is a tricky thing to some extent. Tip-heavy rods are generally not much fun to fish with but aside from removing all the weight you can from the tip area of the rod, adding weight at the butt can help but at some point the greater overall weight may cancel out what you're trying to accomplish in the first place. In other words, adding an ounce to a rod that only weighs 3, 4 or 5 ounces to begin with may not be wise. A heavy balanced rod may not be any less tiring to use than lighter un-balanced rod. Tough call.

Aside from these I'd say that your guide set up is very important. You want a rod that casts nicely and fishes smoothly. Fortunately we have so many lightweight guide choices available these days it's not hard to improve on what most commercial makers are doing with their guide set ups. I'd rate this aspect of a custom rod very high in terms of priority.

Finally I'd say that excellent fit and finish should be offered. No, it won't necessarily make the rod fish better, but I think that most customers feel that attention to detail in this area says alot about your attention to detail in all other areas of the rod's construction as well.

...............

Guide foot prep. Reduces weight, adds a bit more flexibility, reduces chances of a blank failing because of a burr or sharp edge.

Guide size and location. Less weight and stress distribution per blank instead of a chart per model reduces the chances of a blank failing and can help in casting.

Grip length, size and material can be adjusted to fit, making it more comfortable and enjoyable to fish with.

Assembly prep. Good glue bonds and tight tolerances fit better and will last longer.

Workmanship. Tight thread packing, no visible glue between components, glue smears or fingerprints on grips or on the blank between guides, flat finishes with no bubbles, sharp finish lines past the threads, etc. lets someone take pride in using the rod, which makes fishing more fun.

Better Components,
Better Design,
Better Craftsmanship,
Custom Fit, Custom Choices.
IMO, ... -Cliff Hall



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2006 10:44AM by Cliff Hall.

For me,

1. Much reduced weight when the rod is perfect balanced at the reel feet. (spinning rods)
2. Best guides possible
3. Proper guide placement
4. Custom grip

As to what Mick McComesky said about guide foot prep, he was kind enough to prep a large set for me in the past and they are absolutely perfectly prepped. Very very beautiful. I'm not quite that skilled in that department. (Thanks again Mick)

Mo

All good points!! For me, it would be (in no particular order as I feel all are important areas where the custom builder can excel!!!!!
Guide choice/placement
Handle size/fit to the customer
Weight
Cosmetic embellishments
and What I would consider one of the most important - Fit and Finish/attention to detail!!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Most welcome, Mo. It was my pleasure to work with a gentleman such as yourself. If I can ever serve you again, give me a holler. Just holler soon.. winter is around the corner and I'm out of tea! LOL

If I can do it with my 10 thumbs, I'm sure you can, especially with all the tiny stuff you seem to prefer!

I'd say guide set up and distribution first. Reducing weight is always a concern and you should build as light as you practically can. Durability is also important to me as I don't want to have to reduce cheap or soft grips or handles a year or two down the road.

I do not worry much about thread colors, decoration, insignias or spine. I leave those up to the customer and will do whatever he wishes. To me those are mostly superficial and make no real difference in performance.

One thing that I talk about that gets a lot of interest is the locking wrap on single-footed guides. A lot of people have trouble with these guides pulling out (I can see this from all the repairs that i get). The locking wrap gets people's attention.

Steve Broadwell

1.) Weight saving
2.) Ergonomic grip shaping, extra length, O.D. composit cork end pieces
3.) Above enrty level components as per cost constraints
4.) Durability features or additions (Spacing extra guides , composite cork, EVA end pieces, solid arbhors no masking tape.
5.) personalization and special detail (decals) distinctive label areas..as nice as a butt weave but saying so much more
6.) Rod Theme: complimentary blank/thread colors personalized schemes considering hood hardware, guide frames, ring color, winding check, hook keeper
7) personalized for his fishing, rigth or left handed, or specific model reel with the possibility of balancing the outfit
8.) Guide spacing transport features
9.) blank lengthening
10.) Special additives: Cork sealers, ferrule lube, shaped in longer EVA bumper end caps

I agree with almost all of what has been suggested above but I think that the most important thing that a custom rod builder can do to build a better rod than the good rods from the big manufacturers is tailoring the rod to the individual and also tailoring the rod to the particular fishing application.
The big rod manufacturers necessarily have to build rods that are somewhat general purpose and designed for the average fisherman. I do not care how good a job you do of things like prepping guides or guide wrapping the big boys are going to be hard to beat. However, fishing applications have almost an infinite number of variations and every person is a little different. This variety is not something that the big boys can deal with but the custom rod builder can.

Rob, I think you hit some very important ones: comfortable handles and balanced outfit. Coming from the fly rod side, which is mostly what I build, I'd also have to say the biggest advantage a custom builder can provide is better guides. In fact, it's hard to use worse guides than the factory rods so that makes it easy for us (or difficult, depending on who you are trying to sell to). Even the least expensive ceramic guides have pretty darn noticeable performance advantages over wire guides, at least in my opinion. However, don't try to compete with what "most people want". I was in a fly shop a few hours ago and it was packed with rods that cost $300-$3000 and not a ceramic guide in the place (except the stripper guides of course). I showed my Five Rivers FTL803-6 fly rod, with amboyna wood grip and seat and ceramic guides to the owner. The guy said he thought it was great but that he could never sell a rod like that to his customers. "Doesn't look right and no unlimited warranty."

So, if you are trying to build better rods, then build better rods and some people will buy them, but not most people. And in the fly fishing world, you are up against a stubborn and elitest attitude that rods from 100 years ago can't be improved upon. And if it doesn't have an impressive label, then why fish with it. You don't want to try to sell to those people. The only thing I like about them is their money and I still can't bring myself to pretend I agree with them.

Cheers and ta ta for now, LOL.

Steve

What about spine? Nobody going to use spine to build a better rod? LOL!

There's nothing you could do with regard to spine orientation that would make the rod perform badly. There's very little you could do with it to make the rod do anything much better. You just have to decide for yourself where you want to orient it and do so, but it's not going to make nearly as much difference as many of the other things guys have mentioned here. It's going to be hard to make a sale based on rod spine orientation unless you're a really good salesman. Lighter weight, more comfortable handle, better casting performance, better balance, etc., are tangible. Most things related to spine oriented are phantom to most customers - you either convince them or not, but it's not going to provide much in the way of anything tangible. I assume you're joking a bit anyway, but you're sure to get some serious responses.


...................

Emory of course makes an excellent point. Specialization. Out of habit, some of the first questions I ask someone is what they plan on using the rod to fish for, how they plan on fishing for it, where they fish, weights, baits, etc. Unfortunately, I usually wind up with a generalist who wants a general purpose rod and trying to pinpoint something that closely matches at least the majority of what they do can be nerve wracking. Even the bass tourney guys are awfully vague. In all the areas of the country I'ved lived, this can be an awfully frustrating area to be a rod builder (outside of fly rods, at least). All the specialist rods I've built in the past few years, with exception for one, were not local and most were out of state.

The general idea for a perfect rod, (in these local waters, I can't blame them and sometimes even fall into their category myself) is one that they are going to use to toss a crankbait and work the weeds for bass. If they ain't biting, they throw on a snelled hook and bobber fish minnows for crappie. If they ain't biting, they remove the bobber, slap a bigger sinker on the line and bottom fish for cats with chicken livers. If they ain't biting, they break out the nasty stuff and just try and catch some carp. It's something to see when a guy pulls out his $200 rod with a muddy zebco 33 on it, and clips a bobber 4 inches above a 2/0 hook to go after 4 inch bluegill. I still try though. That's part of my job when I build a rod.

I much prefer my walley guys in MN. Those are some picky guys! lol

The custom rod builders I know pay a lotattention to minute hidden details. These are the details you learn over the years of building rods. By builders I mean builders like Emory Harry and Kerry Hansen. These are just a few important things I consider when building a rod for a customer. Number one is the customer. By this I mean how does this person fish and what is he or she fishing for, what is his/her build (tall, short, medium). Even the size of his/her hands are factors to consider when building a custom rod. To me a custom rod is not frills, but the performance when it comes to casting and fighting that dream fish.
Good Wraps Bob

Emory, I know that you think that manufacturers build rods that 'are somewhat general purpose and designed for the average fisherman'.

However, I see huge amount of specialization in the higher end manufacturers. Just a read of Tackletour and the casting rods discussed there really illustrates this.

The way I see it, a custom builder builds to an individual's needs. Large manufacturers also build to an individual's needs. However, since they can't customize one rod to one indifidual, they build many dozens to hundreds of differentiated and specialized rods which the customer can then wade through and select a rod meeting his/her specific needs. Both are seeking to build the best tool possible for a particular individual. Same goal, different approach. Some of the really high end Japanese and American stuff is good.

Of course, I do think that an individual builder can do better if he is highly informed and skilled.

This is where Tom's work with this forum is absolutely invaluable to someone like myself. I participate in many excellent forums on the web but this one stands heads and shoulders above any other forum I have ever had the pleasure of visiting. It is primarily because Tom sets the pace and you guys really contribute incredibly. Thanks!

Mo

Mo,
I think you are right that the large manufacturers build a very wide variety of rods and attempt to cover as many fishing applications as possible but I do not think that they can even come close to covering them all.
Let me use a type of fishing that I am very familiar with as an example to make my point and that is Steelhead fishing. Steelhead runs come into the NW rivers, streams and even creeks in the Summer, Winter and Spring. The winter fish tend to be larger than the summer fish. They will even come into the individual rivers and streams at slightly different times. The weather can result in these rivers being colored up or very clear and the water temperature and flow can vary a great deal. They are pursued using a very wide variety of techniques. A wide variety of hardware is used, a variety of types of bait are used and a wide variety of artificial lures are used. They are fished from the bank, from Drift Boats and from Jet Sleds. All of these different water and weather conditions, type of terminal tackle used, whether fished from a boat or bank and type of boat, time of year, sub-species, etc. etc. reflect into variations in the characteristics of the rod that is optimum for a given situation. The number of possible combinations is huge and on top of this we have the variations in the characteristics and preferences of the individual fisherman. You end up with a number of combinations that is astronomically large, certainly much larger than the number of different types of rods that even the largest rod manufacture can make.
Every fisherman obviously cannot have a rod for every situation so even some custom rods must be somewhat general purpose but in my judgment one of the key things that makes a custom rod offer more value than factory rods is the rods uniqueness and how well suited it is and how it performs in a given fishing situation or fishing situations and also how it suits an individual fisherman. I think that the custom rod builder that wants to sell rods that builds rods that mimic factory rods is chasing his or her tail.

Excellant point Emory. Thats why here in Washington & OR we are lucky to have the rod manufactures we have. If one can't meet our basic rod needs the one up the street can fill that void.
Good Wraps Bob