Daiwa came out with their new Exist rods which are beautiful and quite 'tricked out'.

Anyways, my interest is in the foam that they use for grips which is very stiff and yet lighter than cork and EVA. Anyone know what this foam really is?

You can read about it here:
[www.tackletour.com]

Thanks,
Mo

Looks like a sharp set up and I don't know but I have seen a lot of "innovative" things pushed by this "advertise supported" site that was pure hype from the manufacturer. Not sayng that this is, but I would be skeptical. I notice that they didn't give any actual weight comparison.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Reading that article, is it true that Asian rods do not typically employ "blank through" construction?

Asian rods use the old school reel seats and pistol-ish grips. I forget teh name of these seats, they are from the 60's & 70's I think, the butt grip is offset a little, they have a screw as a foregrip. Mayb eFenwick seats? From what I understand they pay big bucks for these seats, tehy are really into nostalgia & old school over there. Old Red Abu 5000's are the stuff over there.

I’m amazed that they would go through all that work to create sensitivity. Only to use foam on the handles , which deadens sensitivity

Marketing and Hype sells!!!!!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Half of your hand sits on teh reel seat, your finger touches the blank ahead of the front of the reel seat. You guys must have hands of stone to be worried about teh back side of your hand holding the EVA loosing a gazillionth of sensitivity. The description clearly stated the problems they felt were with cork, they found something they felt is better - in this case more durable AND lighter (according to them). They reduced everything else to increase sensitivity, increased durability - and we laugh at them.

The sad truth is that series of rods will be more custom than 99% of actual custom rods built by individual rodbuilders.

Billy;
I have been plumbing for 30 years. Between cuts, chemicals, and calluses. I do had hands of stone, and need every advantage I can get. They are also putting the foam on some of the reel locking down caps.

I wonder if something like Styrofoam used as handle material could have similar or perhaps even better properties than the cork handles so popular today?

Japanese tackle speaks for itself, reels, components etc. I just wish that the Daiwa products made for the US and Australian market was as good as the product they build for themselves, maybe we should demand the same quality here on our own soils.

So.......anyone know what this foam is?

As to Asian tackle, I do consider the Japanese to be at the cutting edge of spin/casting equipment. Sure there is always marketing, and sometimes hype. However, there is also true performance. I just wish the top line Daiwas reels aren't a couple for $1K.

Mo

I try to stay off these bandwagons as much as I can, but, every once in awhile, thier arrises a subject or comment that just gets under my skin. I'm gonna quote Billy Vivona.

"The sad truth is that series of rods will be more custom than 99% of actual custom rods built by individual rodbuilders."

I, in no way, can understand the thinking behind this statement!!! I reckon this means 99% of us are out of business after they hit the market. If, for one second, I thought a production rod could be better than the ones I build, I would have never have started my own business.

Steve Gardner

I too, am a plumber. Not quite as long in the field, but still have the rough and abused hands. Now. This is my own opinion. I think that any reel seat that does not have an area that the fingers touch the blank itself is gonna be less sensitive. I hold my rod, like many others, with my pinky finger, touching the blank at the point of the exposed section on the reel seat.
Try this. Take something and touch your index finger very lightly. Now do the same with your pinky finger.The sensitivity is a lot greater in your pinky finger. I just stepped away for a minute to do another test. I just took a rod with foam and one with cork. ouched the tips on the floor to feel the vibration transmited to the grip area. I cannot tell the differance.

I think what Billy means, is that a large number of custom builders who sell rods to the public, are simply making copies of commercially available rod. There is little in the way of "custom" anything involved. They use standard blanks and components and set up and build the rod the same way the factories do. So in the understanding of what many feel truly makes a rod "custom" these are just commercial rod clones. It's an opinion and I'm sure others both agree and disagree with his statement. I understand what he's saying and tend to agree with him somewhat.

Dawia is a solid company that has built some great products over the years. They've also advertised and promoted some things well beyond the actual fact, as do most commercial makers of any product. I have not seen the rods or grips in question, in person. I'll have to keep an eye out for them. But I'd tend to be suspicious that they've introduced anything cutting edge. They source most of their parts from the same places everyone else does and if such grips were truly a great innovation, they'd already be in some component manufacturer or dealer catalog. But again, I haven't seen them so can't say for sure.

There are a lot of materials available for use as a handle material. Custom builders need only to employ some creative thinking to find the next great grip material. No one is limited to just cork, EVA and Hypalon.

..........

99% are not out of biz, but creating a new reel seat, with a new locking nut, with a new grip material, with Titanium SIC's, on a blank they designed themselves - how many are putting that much thought into their rods, and how many are capable of going the extra step to get all these extras.

Take a look at the Pricing article Tom put together last year, these FW factory rods will cost twice as much as what most guys are sellign their custom rods for. A lot of it is marketting, but you guys sit there and make fun of people buying WAlly rods....Diawa will be making fun of people buying HOmemade rods by Billy for teh same reasons.

Japanese factory rods are a heck of a lot different than US factory rods. A set of Ti guides costs more than 99% of teh market is willing to pay for an entire rod here.

Nordic brand ski poles also feature "air-foam grips" ...dunno if its the same material discussed in the above article, but they do feel good to me and they are at Ski Market. It might be possible to pop em off the ski poles, reshape 'em, and arbor 'em if need be for thinner rods, and try it out. Not a recommendation, not even a suggestion, just an observation so dont blame me!

I have seen a few companies that advertise themselves as custom rodbuilders and you go to their website and they have a few styles of rod you can order for differing species on several different blanks. Not what I would call a true custom rod.

All you need to do is read back through this board and you will see that there are many, many "Custom" rod builders that are basically selling "factory rip offs (preformed grips, cheaper components, factory guide placements, etc) as "custom" rods!! Many even make them before they even have a customer for them. What is custom about that?????
I don't mean to offend anyone, but "custom" rods like that, reflect negatively on all of us

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2006 12:59PM by Mike Barkley.

I have to agree with Mike B and Scott Van Guilder - and I can't tell you how many people I've met since I started this hobby that claim to be custom rodbuilders -when all they are doing is buying a Cabela's kit and assembling it (and poorly). And do a google search for custom rodbuilders - virtually everyone selling on the internet is not really a custom rod builder - I don't care how well you can do a buttwrap or weave - that's not a custom rod.

I think that Billy's comment gets to the point that most "custom rodbuilders" aren't on this site - he's not picking on 99% of rodbuilding.org "members", but on the whole rodbuilding collective. He's more than likely correct. Seriously, how many rodbuilders out there really turn their own grips, modify reelseats, spiral wrap, do static guide testing, etc. As a percentage of the entire group, I'll bet it's very small.

I went through the icast link that Mo posted - they look like neat rods, using SIC/Ti Fuji guides, and some nicely machined parts, as well as, of course, a super secret proprietary graphite blank manufacturing process that creates a blank far superior than anyone else's. Wait, isn't every manufacturer doing that??? I'm sure they are good rods. $500 good? No way in heck.

Any chance the Air Foam is hypalon?

Not sure what my point is, sorry for the rant....

"I think that Billy's comment gets to the point that most "custom rodbuilders" aren't on this site - he's not picking on 99% of rodbuilding.org "members", but on the whole rodbuilding collective. He's more than likely correct. Seriously, how many rodbuilders out there really turn their own grips, modify reelseats, spiral wrap, do static guide testing, etc. As a percentage of the entire group, I'll bet it's very small."

Now that I can agree with. I do turn my own cork or EVA foam. I do the static tests. I do spiral wrap. Ect. ect........... I also sit down with my customers and listen to what they want in the way of a rod. (specific use) Listen to the color combos they want in there threads. shape of there grips. type of guides. I also make any sugestions that might make there custom rod better for them. This is what I consider a custom rod builder.

I do all those things that Rich mentioned. I also try to talk with my customers (just about 100% bass fishermen, so far) and find out exactly what they want the rod for. Most of the ones willing to spend the money are looking for a single-purpose rod - if they want a rod that does everything, they are probably gonna go to BPS.
But, me, or any other small fry, are really not going to be able to go a "custom" as Daiwa is talking about. We really don't have the resources to design our own blanks. And, what we can do in terms of special reel seats, locking nuts, etc. is really pretty limited. For example, I would like to make some rods along the lines of the older ones with the Featherweight handles, but don't think I could ever make this type of handle. A big company has the resources to make anything like this.
What we CAN do, though, are things like static and dynamic testing, locking wraps, spiral wrapping, and other things that the bigger companies really will never be able to do efficiently.
Steve Broadwell