I just returned some very crooked blanks to one of the sponsors who is charging me a 10% restocking fee even though the blanks were unusable as far as I'm concerned. It's hard to build a rod the customer will accept if the blank is crooked in 2, and in 1 case, 3 different planes. I never expect perfectly straight blanks but send me something I can work with! Add in return shipping and it gets expensive quickly.

I wanted to ask the sponsors if any of them have ever considered offering to hand pick blanks for straightness for a reasonable fee. Any takers? I for one would be very willing to pay such a fee.

BTW, the sponsor I mentioned above has just lost a regular customer. Anything I can't get from Black Dog (Joe is great to deal with!) I will now buy from Angler's Workshop. Those people have a FIRST CLASS operation!

David

No one should charge you a restocking fee if the item is unsuitable for use. I assume you asked them for a replacement? Normally restocking fees are charged when a customer simply changes his mind and wants to return something for no other reason.

Of course, these things are up to the individual dealer but like yourself I'd probably have a hard time swallowing that fee if the blank was crooked enough that most builders would have objected to it.

..........

David,
I have recently started checking every blank for straightness and finish integrity, that comes through here before it gets put up for sale, at no charge to the customer. In addition they also get "bent" a few times to make sure there was no damage in shipping. If it's not straight, it doesn't get sold.....no re-stock fee for returns either.


Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing Products

Please let us know which company so we can stay away.

Keep in mind that what one person considers straight and another considers straight may be two different things. Plus, most larger dealers don't have time to pull blanks from bags on each order and check for straightness. I stil sympathize with David to a great degree, but I also understand the difficulty when you have many dozens and dozens of orders to ship each day.

When you come right down to it - it should be the blank manufacturers' responsbility to make sure no badly warped or crooked blanks get past their QC department.

.........

Tom,
I am not sure that I agree with you. It seems to me that everyone in the distribution chain, the manufacturer, the distributor and the custom rod builder have a responsibility to QC what they are selling to their respective customers.
When a custom rod builder buys a blank, or any other product, from a distributor it is only reasonable that he expect that what he is buying has been checked by the distributor. If the distributor has not checked the product I do not think that he should not send it to a customer. This may sound a little harsh but it seems to me that if the distributor thinks that his margins are too thin to spend the time checking the product before he ships it to a customer then he should either try to become more efficient, raise his prices or get out of the business.

I am not ashamed to say Mr. Well's order is with Mud Hole Tackle. His return will be handled as stated in our return policy stated in our printed catalog and online. This policy states we reserve the right to change a 10% restocking fee. It does not say we will, but that we may. Mr. Well’s was told on the phone of the 10% fee and the email copy of the RMA he received indicated this as well. This is our way of fully informing the customer of this fee. What we apparently did not explain well enough is that the fee is waved if the blank (or any other return) is found to be a manufactures defect. We have already taken steps to ensure this explanation occurs on the phone as well as on the footer of the RMA.

As Mr. Kirkman indicated, large distributors simple can not check each blank for straightness, just we can not check that each guide foot is ground property nor if 100 yards of thread are really on each spool of thread. While I am proud that we are the largest supplier of rod components, our staff makes every effort not to lose site of the one-on-one customer service that Mud Hole was built on over 31 years ago.

If Mr. Well’s blanks are found to be bent to an un-acceptable degree for blank quality, he will not be charged the 10% restocking fee and his shipping charges for the blanks returned as well.

Regards,
Tom McNamara
President & CEO
Mud Hole Custom Tackle




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2006 11:41AM by Moderator.

Andy, you're a class act! The next time I order blanks I'll be talking to you. I've been curious about those CTS blanks anyway, and you just pulled me off the fence. What bugs me is that if you can maintain a viable business and still offer that kind of customer service why can't some others?

Tom, I didn't ask for replacements because I was afraid of just getting more of the same. I honestly think that any builder would have rejected those particular blanks though and I felt justified in sending them back. I agree wholeheartedly that it is the manufacturer's responsibility to keep those bad blanks from ever getting into the dealer's stock to begin with. I also understand the dealer's position when he has lots of orders to ship out every day, but that is why I said I was willing to pay a surcharge for such a service. However, as I have seen before on this forum, Andy Dear has shown a willingness to go above and beyond in the way he runs his business.

Josh, in all fairness the bottom line is that the crooked blank situation still has a degree of subjectivity and for that reason I feel that naming the company publicly would be in poor taste.

David

Thanks, Tom

Your response further points out why we should be VERY skeptical of posted complaints as generally only ONE side of an issue is presented.. With the competiveness of the supply business, I have found that most, if no all< will bend over backwards to accomadate a customer (those that don't usually fall by the wayside) Obviously things can happen, but I have had nothing but great suucess in dealing with Mudhole (as with others)

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Tom McNamara of Mud Hole apparently wrote his post above as I was typing my last post. I applaud him for publicly addressing this matter. The problem arose because I was told FLATLY on the phone that I WOULD be charged the 10% restocking fee PERIOD even though I had explained that the blanks were simply too crooked for me to in good conscience try to pass off to my customers.

Mr. McNamara's post shows a good faith effort to work fairly with me/us and I have to give him credit for that.

Mike, I too have had EXCELLENT service from Mud Hole in the past and that's exactly why I was so disappointed to be faced with what seemed to be an unfair situation this time. I also stated above that there is indeed a degree of subjectivity with this whole "crooked blank" thing, and for that reason I wasn't willing to publicly announce the company's name. I will await Mud Hole receiving & examining the blanks in my return shipment and will show my good faith by abiding by and accepting their verdict, whether in my favor or not, without malice.

The intent of my original post was only to try to find a way to have at least some assurance of getting reasonably straight blanks.

David

The bottom line is that ALL manufacturers at some point will make a crooked blank...it's just a fact of life. And it's also a fact of life that at some point every distributor has unkowingly sold and shipped a crooked blank. The industry needs both large and small distributors, both have their positive and negative attributes, both have the capacity/potential to provide good and bad service. I tend to think that when a company is making 250,000 blanks a year some crooked blanks are bound to slip through. If the deler has the capacity to check them, then great, but not all dealers have that capacity for a number of reasons.
I know the guys at MudHole, as they distribute my Exotic Burl Material, and they are good guys. I am sure this was just a simple miscommunication.

Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing Products

Mud Hole Custom Tackle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not ashamed to say Mr. Well's order is with
> Mud Hole Tackle. His return will be handled as
> stated in our return policy stated in our printed
> catalog and online. This policy states we reserve
> the right to change a 10% restocking fee. It does
> not say we will, but that we may. Mr. Well’s was
> told on the phone of the 10% fee and the email
> copy of the RMA he received indicated this as
> well. This is our way of fully informing the
> customer of this fee. What we apparently did not
> explain well enough is that the fee is waved if
> the blank (or any other return) is found to be a
> manufactures defect. We have already taken steps
> to ensure this explanation occurs on the phone as
> well as on the footer of the RMA.
>
> As Mr. Kirkman indicated, large distributors
> simple can not check each blank for straightness,
> just we can not check that each guide foot is
> ground property nor if 100 yards of thread are
> really on each spool of thread. While I am proud
> that we are the largest supplier of rod
> components, our staff makes every effort not to
> lose site of the one-on-one customer service that
> Mud Hole was built on over 31 years ago.
>
> If Mr. Well’s blanks are found to be bent to an
> un-acceptable degree for blank quality, he will
> not be charged the 10% restocking fee and his
> shipping charges for the blanks returned as well.
>
> Regards,
> Tom McNamara
> President & CEO
> Mud Hole Custom Tackle
>
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at 08/03/06 11:41AM by
> Moderator.


It is my belief that if you are going to mark up a product for profit you can do more than just grab it off the shelf and ship it. Whatever happened to quality of service??

Should I refuse to pay the restocking fee for the GLoomis Blank that I am returning because it was straight? Tom Mc - sure was happy to see you are watching and taking care of business! Good Job!

Gon Fishn

What is the primary product that a distributor of other manufacturers products provides. I would argue that a distributors primary product is service. When you order something from a distributor what you are paying him for, over and above the manufacturers price to the distributor, is service. If a distributor ships a product that he gets from a manufacturer without ever having even inspected it, maybe without ever having even inventoried it, then in my judgment the custom rod builder is not getting the service that he paid for.
Primarily because the cost of entry is low there are many distributors and also now because the distributor has to compete with internet sales the distributor business is a tough business with thin margins. But I would argue that those are the distributors problems and all businesses have problems of one type or another. Those problems are not the problem of his customer the custom rod builder and should not be passed on to the custom rod builder by way of the short cuts that he takes to reduce his labor costs.
Over the long haul I think that the distributors that provide the best service will survive a tough business environment and those that take the short cuts will not survive.

David,

Thanks for the kind words. Thank you for your continued patronage.

I usually inspect the blanks I ship and I often check for specific attributes at the request of the client. Straightness, blemishes, scratches, color uniformity, etc are all things people have asked me to look at before shipping. I am happy to do so to avoid problems down the road and assure customer satisfaction. No fee for this service.

Having said that, I am basically a one man show and I can do these things and be assured they are done correctly. Even so, what I look for and what the client is looking for may still be two different things. We all know that one can expect the occasional slip from employees of larger firms who are not necessarily as invested as the owners in the success and future of the company. I would encourage you to make decisions regarding suppliers based on overall experience with a vendor rather than a single experience. I buy from the sponsors on the left if I need an item I don't carry and I believe they are each and every one sincerely commited to this industry and to you as an individual client. Every mistake or problem I've encountered has been corrected or made right immediately. All the sponsors want happy customers.

Thanks, Joe





Joe Douglas

A question for those more knowledgeable than I... Is there a significant chance that a blank could be shipped reasonably straight to begin with and then acquire a warp from being cooked in a FedEx truck for a couple of days? Upon reflection, and it may very well be pure circumstance, I simply haven't run into this problem very often in the cooler months. Could it be??? Just a thought...

My original post: a can of worms opened and run amok. ;^)

David



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2006 03:02PM by David Wells.

I have to agree with Tom as far as checking everything that they handle with the volume that they do. It would take an entire staff to QC everything that comes through their doors and unless that staff works for free, it's going to effect selling prices. Most of us know if a given vendor (few and far between) has QC issues and that stuff generally gets checked period. Believe me, shipping a crooked blank, having to retrieve it and then send out a replacement is VERY costly and is something that no one wants to do.

We have the luxury of being physically close to our two largest blank manufacturers. Even though we buy in large enough quantities that these manufacturers will pay the freight to get our blanks to us, we opt to pick them up because they DO kick out a crooked one from time to time. We're one of the few that actually has the ability to cull our blanks before we receive them. The only blank we've ever taken back had an issue with a tip size being off by a 1/2 size, which isn't something that we'd normally look for. The customer was given the option for a free top to fit, but wanted what was advertised (and I don't blame him), so we paid the shipping both ways to get him what he wanted. We did however check the rest of this model to see if it had a "twin" in the batch. It was a fluke.

A manufacturer that we used to deal with actually culled his own blanks into "blank quality" and "build quality". Blanks that weren't perfectly straight would get wrapped and sold as a built rod, as it's very difficult to find this flaw once the guides are in place. The ones that were REALLY bad would get cut in half and sold as "reamer stock". This company changed hands a few years back, doesn't offer built rods any more and the bent ones are now sold as seconds. Their “Lifetime Warranty” was taking months to honor, so we made the decision to quit stocking them before it turned into a customer service nightmare.

We as I think most sponsors do, offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee to allow the customer the opportunity to inspect his/her order and insure that it meets their expectations. If they’re not satisfied, neither are we and we give them the option for replacement or a full refund. I’m happy to say that very few have had to take advantage of this.

Items like blanks, cork grips, certain guides or anything else that has the possibility of having a flaw, we check. A line like Fuji however that has such tight QC standards, we don’t give a second thought to.

Nobody wants to ship you a bad part. It’s not good for ANYONE involved.


Mark Griffin
[]
C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California

David,

It is my experience that there is a very good chance a blank can be broken by shipping no matter how carefully packaged. Given the heat that builds up inside vehicles and what appears to be a common practice among shippers of bending long packages to get them in the truck or using them as pry bars, I suppose anything could happen.

Joe

Joe Douglas

David,
In re-reading my respons to your post, I think that it may have come across as somehow critical of you for making the post or insinuating that you didn't give all of the information. If so, I apologize!! Nothing could be further from what I meant. My response was only meant to point out to newcomers to this board that they should realize that not everything that appears is the whole story and that they should realize that often they aren't hearing the whole story. I didn't mean to insinuate anything by my post!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Mike, I recognize you as a valued and respected member of this forum community and you made a very valid point. I certainly took no offense.

Regards,
David