I have made about 4-5 fly rods, mostly Sage XP with REC components and Recoil guides. So far I have just followed Sage's chart for guide placement and have been happy with the way they cast. I am about to start a new Sage rod, 5 wt, 4 piece.

I read with great interest the discussions and articles in the library about guide placement techniques. My question is, how much difference do these techniques make on a fly rod? Will the rod be remarkably better than if I was to use Sage's chart?

Hi Daniel,

find out what guide placement would make sense from yr. point of view and then in the end compare with the one coming from Sage. Generally we can assume that the placements Sage is giving are not wrong ( I also used them already) but may be not the only one what will make sense.

I am about to start to build a RPLXI 990-3 and I also got the original placement from Sage but will check out on my own (and then compare), may be there will be just a slight difference between your layout and the one coming from Sage.

What definitively will have an influence from m ypoint of view are guide styles and sizes if you will deviate from manufacturer's recommendation.


RGDS,
Ole

Here Dan, read this past thread of mine. It left me even more confused after I read the responses!

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Dan, I have also asked myself the same question, and another issue. If there was a failure of a blank, will the manufacturer have a basis for disallowing the warranty of the guides are not placed as per their recommendations? They might feel that their placement places even stress on the blank and a deviation from that may put undue stress on it.
For that reason, if it is a high quality blank, I place as per manufacturers specs.

When the manufacturer makes up these charts, he/she must decide where to put the srtpping guide. This guide should be placed on the rod depending on the height and arm length of the individual who is going to use the rod. For the manufacturer they must choose some average value.

What I would do is take the rod in your right hand and with your right arm at a right angle, reach with your left hand and touch the rod. Now palce the stripping guide at two inches beyond this point. If you wish, you can then put the other guides where sage thought they should go. Now do a static distribution test to see how close Sage's spacing comes to the ideal.

Now take the rod out and cast it with the guides taped into place. Repeat about five casts to get an idea how far you can cast the rod. Now move the stripper back to Sage's position and do another five casts. Not any differences.

Now return to your work area and repeat the static distribution test and move the guides that appear to be in the wrong place. Remember the ideal position for the guides is to follow thr natural curve of the blank without any sharp breaks or line touching the blank.

When I first started to make rods, I used spacing charts. Sometimes the results were good, but other times the rod didn't cast as well. That led me to what is now called the static distribution test. Sometimes we even have to add more guides or less guides than the manufacturer recommends. Back when Sage first came out, I built an 8' 5 wt fly rod from a Sage blank. I tried their spacing and then the static distribution test and found I obtained better performance when I made some adjustments.

Ultimately, you will have to decide where to put the guides based on your own reasoning as well as input from others including manufacturers recommendations.

Good luck,

Mike Blomme

Thanks for the replies so far, and thanks (Tim) for the link. Intertesting.

As an amateur builder, I don't know if I'm right, but here is my theory. My theory is that if I could magically come up with the "perfect" guide placement system, I would end up with a rod that doesn't cast or perform any differently to the average user. The performance differences would be minor enough (compared to the Sage chart), that you couldn't even tell. My thoery also states that a newbie like me has a very good change of building a rod that can't cast at all if I try to come up with that "perfect" guide placement system, rather than rely on a company that has a pretty good idea of how to build rods.

Dan,
All new builders go through various stages. When they start they usually copy factory rods and produce very nice products. But as I went along I realized that I was not producing a true custom rod but only a factory copy, better rod but still a copy. When I began to branch out and get more innovated using different type eyes, handle material and better guide spacing I began to produce a true custom rod. I have never had a warrenty problem with any Co. because of not using their guide spacing and if I ever do then I will not be using their product again. There are plenty of excellent parts suppliers out there and I use several. I hope you use products from our sponsers first and good luck on a great hobby.

Use the chart to get close....then tweak with the static method. There is no way to be wrong really, but if you adjust to guides based on the bend of the blank and place the strippers so you can reach the line. How could you go wrong?? You won't end up with some thing vastly deferent from what you get on the chart but it will be based on the very blank in your hand not just a generic reference chart .

I have never heard of a warranty being denied because you didn't place the guides per the manufacturers chart.

After all aren't you building a custom rod....why try to replicate what the factory is doing?

The most important point is to end up with a guide as close to the female ferrules as possible.

Steve, why is that the most important thing - and are you saying - right on it, just in front of it, or just underneath it on the next section? I've got 6 or so factory built rods and a dozen or so more that I built myself. The only rods with a guide "close to the female ferrule" are a couple that I built myself based on the recommendations of this forum. The factory rod companies must be either doing it for some specific reason or else they're just plain stupid. I just don't like the looks of one on or close to the ferrule and now keep them away from it. I know I must be doing it wrong but I can't get it into my head that's the best way.