I learned early on (as, I'm sure, most people here did too) that one of the best things (maybe the best thing) about getting into custom rod building is the opportunity to make a rod that will be exactly what you want it to be. You can choose the length, the weight, the action, even the color -- you can create the perfect tool for the situation you face.

I'm still new at this (about 6 or 7 rods completed), but I build mostly surf rods, and I've been thinking about surf rod length a lot lately (maybe I have a problem). I read a recent post asking about a 15-foot surf rod, and I thought (and posted) my opinion that nobody, with the possible exception of the Incredible Hulk, needs a 15-foot rod.

I believed even before I started building rods that most surf guys use rods that are too long for them, and would be better served by something shorter. I know that in the experiments I've done while building rods, I've found that for me something around ten feet is just about perfect for a surf bait rod, and 8 or 9 feet is good for a plugging rod. These lengths have worked well for me. I've even found that for me - and I suspect for most surfcasters - anything longer than 10 feet or so actually decreases casting distance, as the rod's unwieldiness causes me to lob, rather than cast, the bait.

But every time I go on the beach, I see guys with 11 and 12 foot rods. They're not any bigger or stronger than me, and I think, as I watch them, that they would better be served by something shorter. But then I think that I'm probably a dope, because why would they all be using long rods if that isn't what works best for them?

I don't mean to open up Pandora's box here, but I would like to see what the good folks on this board have to say about surf rod length, especially surf rods designed to throw bait.

Are these guys out fishing you? Are they reaching a blitz you cant? Who knows why they choose to use the rods they pick? The rods could have been on sale somewhere, they could be trying something they havent experemented with before, or it could be a blank that someone bought for a good price and built for leisure. Who knows. Do what is best for you. If surf fishing is your specialty be confident in it. I see guys fishing in my area with the wrong type of gear and i dont say anything. It leaves more fish for me.
On the other end of the spectrum, my friend who is one of the best surf fishermen I know uses and 11'6 lami for huge pieces of wood. We are not talking bombers here, we are talking giant pencils and swimmers. He outcasts me while i am using a 10 fter. 20 different guys, 20 different things. Experience and practice will prevail.

Hope this helps out bud.

Sincerely,
Dan Colville

Surf rod length was covered pretty well in the RodMaker article on surf rod building (Volume 7 #1). A longer rod will cast farther, but requires more effort on the part of the angler. At some point as you move up the length scale, the angler will no longer have the power or strength to move that rod as well or as fast as he did a shorter one. At that point, you have reached a diminishing return and the longer length will no longer serve you.

The very reason that graphite surf rods outcast glass rods, was not due to any miracle taking place within the rod or fiber. It was because anglers were suddenly able to fish longer rods and cast them with no more effort than was required to cast shorter, but heavier and thicker glass rods.

Still, there is a practical limit that once reached, is foolhardy to move beyond. This will vary from person to person, but I doubt many anglers can effectively cast 15 foot surf rods.

..............

Thanks, Tom. I do have the RMM surf rod issue, and meant to include that in the post and forgot to.

And you confirmed a point that I was trying to make, but did not clearly state: yes, it is true that a world-class caster can cast farther with a 12-foot rod than a 10-foot rod. But let's face it: most of us aren't world-class casters (I know I'm not), and I think that the vast majority of surfcasters would be better served by something shorter than the norm, somewhere around 10 feet.

Almost all of my surf rods (BAIT) are over 11 feet 2-1418 Allstars and 2 1508's. the rods I use for plugs and eels are about 8 ft, weakfish rods 7 ft so it is a matter of personal choice, I'm a good size fella and those long rods are easy casting. I have caught when no one else is.

Interesting points being made here. I am in the middle of building two 8' surf rods for 3/4 to 4ounces. Choosing rod length in some cases could be the same reason many people drive certain vehicles: "Hey look, mine's bigger than yours." How long a rod do you need to cast 3 ounces 50 yards or how big a car do you need to shop for groceries or drive to an office job?

The lond rods used at the point (Cape Hatteras) and other beaches are also commonly known as "heavers" around here. Anglers can make longer casts because the rod being much longer can accelerate the weight n bait much more during the cast. Example: The motion of the cast being equal for a given arc that a rod has to make during the cast, the arc radius of a longer rod is longer. Thus for a given cast lasting an equivalent amount of time, the longer rod's tip would have to travel further, and thus its speed would be greater. This translates into longer distances. Go to a Sportcast casting competition - you will not see short rods there, for a reason...... I build quite a few of these heavers.

These longer rods do not necessarily require more strength from the angler. What they do require is SKILL to make precisely timed casting movements, as in a pendulum cast, to make these long rods truely perform. Of course on these long rods you can hang and 8oz sinker and a piece of mullet or menhaden on the end of the fishing line, and make a cast directly over the shoulder, but this is not the way to load these rods and you'll be expending alot of energy making inefficient casts. IMHO a heaver requires as much skill as a flyrod to cast correctly. They are not rods for beginners, the novice, or the faint-hearted, for they will quickly discourage the inexperienced.

Lou

I agree with the points being made about casting style and casting experience- they really are more important than rod length. I fish rods from 7' to 12' in glass and graphite for various weights and plugs and all have to be cast differently to get the best distance from them. Read what Frank Daignault has to say on the subject in 'Striper Surf' and then Ron Arra's 'Power Surfcasting" for more insight on what goes on during the cast. These methods will help you get distance and control much more than length. A 15' rod? Maybe on a dare. :)

Lou,

What you say is certainly true, but I think all of us are making the case that at some point longer is not going to be better nor cast farther. What could those same casters do with 20 foot rods? If they could no longer move them at the same speed as the shorter rods then the tip speed is not going to be greater, it may even be less.

When the length of the rod begins to exceed the capabilities of the person doing the casting, there will be no further benefits from a longer rod.

And of course, casting is just one of the things you do with a rod. You also have to fight a fish and the longer the rod is more leverage you give away to the fish. Everything we do with regard to rod length is a compromise to some extent. You gain something on one end but give it up on the other.

..........

I hve read with interest all the opinions on length of a surf rod, since I am in the process of building my first surf caster. I must confess, my decision to build a 9' two-piece rod was driven by the availability of the Amtack white graphite composite blank. 9' was the longest available, and my first goal was to build on the white blank. Just a vision of something I ahev been carrying in my head. I just finished applying Threadmaster to the underwraps this morning, and will wrap the guides next week. Used a cork tape handle and Mudhole adjustable reel seat (Tom & Cliff, you may remember helping me with that process). By the way, the cork tape is not anywhere near the challenge I initially felt. I am pretty happy with my results. I also got hellp from the good folks at Mudhole on this project.

I've not fished the surf before, but will have the oportunity in September in the Myrtle Beach area. I'm looking forward to that. As always, thanks to everyone on this forum that offers so much help!

Fran, I think that you will enjoy the 9-footer immensely. Longer rods do have a place, but I think -- and this was sort of the thinking behind my original post -- most surfcasters, in most circumstances, would be better served by a shorter rod than a longer rod, and 9-feet is a good length, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, the magazine and the board have sold me on twine grips for surf rods. I'm not going to use cork tape anymore - twine is cheaper, easier, and performs better in just about every way.

We still tend to use longer rods (12-14ft) for surf fishing in Australia because of two factors (in my opinion), one large waves and the need to cast past them and/or to keep the line out of the breakers, and the use of alvey reels (where the butt grip length is around 6" only), so the weight of the reel right towards the back of the rod balances it out, so the longer rod isn't as much as a hindrance.

I think for us 12' is a good length as a compromise between length and weight (especially with a graphite blank). In fact my dad and I are building 3 piece 12' low mount surf rods at the moment. Mine is made to replace my current 10' rod and my dads is made to replace his 13' rod.

I came to the same conclusion on the grips a few years back. Cord has a lot going for it in overall terms of use, durability, color co-ordination, ease of replacement, etc.

..................

Hey, one new thing at a time, guys. I just did my first cork tape handle, and now you start talking up twine. If I order twine for my next one, what will you be surprising me with next? I am destined to be just one step behind the curve in this game. Besides, I like the look of the cork.

Michael Shea: When dunking bait in the New Jersey surf, I use only Alvey reels -- I have five of them -- and, belive it or not, I've found that the shorter rods have served me well, even with the Alveys. My "go-to" bait rig in the Jersey Surf is a custom, ten-foot, 3-8 oz. rod paired with a 650BCXL. I caught a 30-something striper in the surf with this rig last month (proudly released). I know that Alvey suggests long rods with their reels, but I've found that the extra length isn't needed -- with a large gathering guide, you can get a better performing rod without the extra length. I have an extra-heavy (6-16 oz, 12'6") rod that I use with my Alvey 700C5, and I don't think I'm going to be shortening that rod soon, but Alveys can -- and I would argue should -- be successfully used with rods shorter than 3 meters. I would love to build a 10-foot, extra heavy rod for the 700C5 -- I think it would work great, as long as the first guide was big - probably 50 mm. The local guys look at me like I'm a weirdo (I'm used to that), but I really think that Alveys are superior bait reels. I love them. But I don't think you need a super-long reel to do well with them. Please e-mail me (christophergarrity at hotmail.com) if you'd like to discuss this - I love talking about fishing, rod building, and Alvey reels.

Tom: I've meant to thank you for the RMM edition that turned me on to twine. I spent a goodly bit of time building my favorite bait rig -- it's the one that I use with the Alvey 650BC I refer to above -- and I ruined the cork tape the first time I used it -- it was a dark night in the spring, I tripped on the steps leading to my favorite Jersey beach, and the result was a big cut in the cork tape. After cursing my fate, and wondering what to do, I saw RMM on the passenger seat of my car -- the timing was perfect -- and I replaced the "heavy duty" cork tape with twine. Suffice it to say that I'll never use anything other than twine again. And, I'm glad to say, I have guys asking if I can put twine on their surf rods -- it's one method that really distinguishes custom rod builders: you never see it on a factory rod, and it is superior to anything else out there.

Fran: If you think it's bad now, just wait. Leave now, or you will be stuck forever. This is such a great hobby/endeavor that if you stick around, you will learn so much that you will be unable to escape. I built my first rod last October, and I don't think I'm ever going to escape... (And do yourself a favor and buy the back issue of RodMaker Magazine that deals with surf rods).

13- 13'6" are very poplular with the heavers. CTS Makoi makes some of the finest.

For me (i'm not a heaver, just a long time surfcaster, 15' is too long, 12' to short. So I prefer the numbers in between. Don't have a CTS yet, but I'm getting there. Nothing too stiff either. I like to see a nice wide curve when I look over my shoulder in the rod. Gives you nice momentum and power to achieve the long casts. Newell reels helps also.

Got to work on Ron Arra's pendulum principle casting technique and get me some real long casts.

Pete
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