Help please!
I am dumbfounded and feeling really dumb. I delivered a rod I finished to a coworker who brought it back the next day with a problem in the epoxy at the end of the buttwrap. I for the life of me cannot figure out what I did wrong. The epoxy over the top tie off for the buttwrap has cracked and separated almost like the epoxy has shrunk exposing the thread underneath. I used madeira thread with some gudebrod mixed in with 811 unthinned 1 coat. CP dried for 24 hours then 2 coats of Threadmaster on top, allowing roughly 24 hours drying time between coats.
The buttwrap was done about 2 weeks ago and I delivered it yesterday in perfect condition. My coworker brought it to me today like this, he hasn't even put a reel on it yet. Im really scratching my head over this one. I hope you guys can take a look at the pics I'm posting of my screwup and give me some advise. I am going to cut it all off and rewrap it but I'm kinda worried about the guide wraps failing too. I think i've narrowed it down to some things I could have done wrong but Im not even close to experienced in these things. I wrap kinda oddly when I do crosswraps as I hold the spool in my hand as I lay threads down, maybe this is creating too much tension on the thread or contamination?? Im pretty sure the Threadmaster was mixed properly I use syringes and mix 3cc of each part everytime. I'd hate to think this is related to the threadmaster as I love the stuff so far and Ive never had any problems with any epoxy in the past. Could I have possibly used slightly too much hardener?? Could it be humidity related? This rod spent 2 weeks in my basement room taken to work in a rod sock and promply put in my coworkers truck . Im stumped and really feel bummed about this. Any Ideas??


Scott

I'll take a shot. Part of the trim band is better adhered to the blank. During the full flex bend of the blank the part better adhered to the blank separated from the rest.?

Shot 2...thread wrapped from left to right along the axis of a blank in the form of a crosswrap has a different strength than thread wrapped in the trim band.

Or both...the crack happened dead nuts in the tie off.

If the finish had penetrated the thread then it is unlikely this would have happened. It sounds like the finish did not adhere to the cp, and thus separated there at that layer between the cp and finish.

Lou

I’m not sure why it happened. But it is possible that having in the cool basement then putting in your air condition car. Then putting it into his truck at work were it could cook all day may be what caused it. Could be the rod expanded in the heat causing the separation. Have never seen this so I’m not sure, just a thought. Maybe was contaminated from sweat from your hands and the heat change allowed the reaction to happen .

The CP did not cause your problem. Nor was the epoxy the problem. Something is on that thread that has repeled what you put on there. Epoxy itself is a very stable and this is why it makes such a good casting resin. Your problem is in the thread.

.........

Thanks for the replies gentlemen.
I think you all have made valid points and given me new things to think about when i wrap, I take this as an opportunity to learn and become better. The thing that really stumps me is why this happened 2 weeks after completion. On this rod I did the butt wrap way before the guides were laid out, so this went thru the whole static distribution tests which take me forever along with many many full blast test casts with taped on guides and after guides were all finished, all without a problem. The rod looked great yesterday and has not been used by the owner yet just "looked at" in his living room. I really hate screwing up! I've done around 30 rods and have never had any problems with cp or epoxy. Im going to cut it off and do it again and really pay attention to the way im doing things.
Thanks again for the help guys, having access to the minds of the pros is invaluable to us rookies.

Scott

Back when I was doing cross wraps I had a rod that after a number of years separated on both ends of the cross wrap in the trim band and tie off bands. I always wrapped very tight and stretched the thread and I figure that the tension on it over time caused it to "shrink" so to speak. The gap at each end was about 1/16" wide. That's the only thing I could see that would cause that.

Scott,
Sometime in the 80's Roger Seiders of Flex Coat asked me to bring a rod to a fishing tackle show. He had a booth and wanted some custom rod builders to bring some rods to demonstrate the use of Flex Coat rod finish and show the effects. I made a rod, took it to the show, and that night I noticed the finish cracking right in front of the full wrap just like yours. I think the tension on the threads made it crack. I still have that rod. It has caught many fish and have never had a problem with it except for the cracks which are still there.

Scott - I was goign to say it might be the tension of the thread on teh wrap might have done it. I know when I do my tie offs on closed wraps, the tension on teh threads are parallel to teh blank, and this sometimes causes teh pattern to "slip". I think this is what Jim & Ellis experianced as posted above, and thought it may be what has happened to you, and it may very well have. This is caused from teh blank being covered with thread, the tie off thread never contacts teh blank, it's on top of threads which has Silicone in them which make them more prone to slipping than say a Gudebrod thread.

The thing that throws me is.....if the pattern squeezed together, then that Yellow trim band in the center wouldn't be straight anymore. There should be some sort of a gap in teh tie off threads, if the epoxy moved, then teh threads should have also moved below.

The one thing I woudl NOT do is redo the wrap. I'd figure out a way to sand and re-coat, or cut off the tie off and shorten it. Anythign but redoing the wrap.

I agree with Tom. (What a surprise)

The wrap itself hasn't moved, only the epoxy. This indicates a poor adhesion between the thread layer and the flexcoat. I would definitely try to sand and recoat and not redo the wrap.

Terry

There shouldn't be any problem between the adhesion of Threadmaster and 811...this has been tested extensively in both real world and laboratory conditions.

Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing Products

FWIW..

I've had this.happen.once..1982..I put a light coat over top & I still have the rod..all's well.