I have done a search to try to figure out what exactly 'high sticking' is in terms of rod breakage, but can't find a definition of what this means. Can someone post an explanation of the term for me? Thanks.

Pesco Ergo Sum

Hi Bruce,
High sticking is the term use for discribing the excessive angle of the rod to the fish.
Normaly, when fighting a fish the rod should be held at about a 45 degree angle to the
water at most. When a person raises the rod tip high and gets that angle closer to 90
degrees thats "high sticking". When high sticking the weaker parts of the rod do most
of the work and thats when failure occures most.

Hope I explaned it well enough.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

AT 090 DEGREES, this is still very safe and not "HIGH-STICKING".
AT 150 DEGREES, this would be considered HIGH-STICKING for sure.

Let's define the angle in this discussion of "high-sticking" as the angle at the intersection of the tangent from the BENT ROD TIP and the tangent from the unbent backbone that extends beyond the rod tip. This is the smaller acute angle when the rod is lightly loaded. ... So, we are comparing the angle between the loaded rod tip (flattened out) as deviation from the ROD TIP's ORIGINAL UNBENT / unloaded condition.

Between 000 - 030 degrees, the rod tip is pointed toward the fish. Hardly any of the tension in the fishing line is exerted as a force onto the fishing rod.

At a 045 degree angle, the rod blank has more load on it, and the rod blank is exerting a steady spring-like pressure on the fish.

At a 090 degree angle, the rod is at about it's optimum ability to exert fighting pressure and still be loaded safely with respect to its structural limits.

At about a 120 degree angle, a load is transmiitted to the rod blank that begins to put a deep bend in the rod blank, "into the corks".

Above 120 degrees, the rod blank is heavily loaded.

Above 150 degrees, the rod blank is dangerously loaded. Usually only an Ugly Stick or a similar rod designed to tolerate such handling (like a noodle rod) will survive reliably. It is a matter of structural material, the manner of construction, and the all-important rod taper and wall thickness / blank diameter. In the Ugly Stick TV commercials or magazine advertisements, the bend angle is as high as ~ 210 to 240 degrees. Yow !!

When using a cane-pole, where the line is tied to the rod tip, there is no reel drag and no line guides to distribute the load. The only way to avoid high-sticking is to use a net (which may be impractical) or to pick a cane which can handle the entire load (body weight of the fish) without failure or severely bending.

From a former cane-poler, "swinging mullet" with the best of the crackers & mammies on the seawall of the St. John's River in Green Cove Springs, FL. That's one smoked bait that my kingfish can't have. They get live pinfish, which ain't my cup of tea ! ... B)- LOL, ... -Cliff Hall, FL-USA.

Bruce,
To my knowledge there has never been a rigorous definition of high sticking. A couple of rod manufactures have said in the past that if you hold the butt of the rod at 45 degrees relative to the ground or the water with a dead load directly below the tip of the rod, the line (at the maximum line rating of the rod) should break before the rod breaks. However, if you increase this angle to higher than 45 degrees then the rod may break before the line does.
Another and maybe more useful way of looking at this is, if you have an angle between the handle and the load, hopefully a fish, that is less than 45 degrees you are high sticking the rod and in danger of it breaking.
As this angle between the butt of the rod and the load drops more and more of the load moves farther and farther up the rod toward the tip where the rod is less and less strong. Also because as the action angle of the rod gets higher and higher more and more of the load will be toward the tip of the rod as well so a slow action rod will tolerate a bit lower angle to the load than will a high action angle rod.
I hope that I said so that it is clearly understandable.

Emory's 45 degree angle would be the 135 degree angle as I described the discussion above.

My saying that high-sticking is "for sure" at 150 degrees, would be when the rod's backbone is at 60 degrees above the horizon (water's surface or floor), while the rod tip is tied to a dead vertical load (hanging weight or floor bolt), as described in Emory's system.

By Emory's system (from some rod blank manufacturers), they are saying that a rod blank that is flexed beyond a 135 degree ARC is operating beyond its intended design boundaries. The jeopardy of tube failure or fracture for most rod blanks increases rapidly as that arc angle continues to increase. ... -Cliff Hall.

High Sticking is when the angle of the rod gets too steep and the rod breaks as a result. The degrees I would think may be different on each rod, taper and the types of materials it is made of. What is bad is that the fisherman is really less effective when he starts getting to those angles.

I agree with Doc 110% Breakage from high sticking varies from taper to taper, material to material, and from different construction types as well.


Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing Products

Doc,
Yes, there are other variables including the modulus of the material, action angle, type of construction and many other second order considerations. But when we use the term "High Sticking" we are talking primarily about the angle. At present there is no definitive answer to the question what is high sticking, how high is high, and in my judgment there needs to be a better, more quantitative guide to what is too high.
At present no one can look at how a rod is being used and tell if it is being high sticked or not without making a very subjective, qualitative judgment that is most often going to be wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2006 12:27PM by Moderator.

This was all covered in the RodMaker Magazine article, along with photos of how to apply the greatest amount of pressure on the fish with the least amount of stress to the rod.

..........

Andy, Doc,
As I think about it more, if we use 45 degrees and a load at the maximum line rating of the rod
the type of construction and material type should affect the line rating or the load but not the angle.

Tom,
I remember that article which as I remember did a good job of describing high sticking and how to avoid it but it did not try to quantify what is and what is not high sticking. It still left the fisherman with the question of at what point am I high sticking the rod or how high is high.

"As I think about it more, if we use 45 degrees and a load at the maximum line rating of the rod
the type of construction and material type should affect the line rating or the load but not the angle"

Emory, I agree with you 110%as well.

Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing Products

What seems to be omitted from the examples, is getting fish into the boat. Most of the rods I've seen break & heard about breaking due to high sticking, is on teh hook set and liftign the fish into the boat. When fishing around structure, it is often neccesary to set the hook, cross the fish's eyes, and drag it away from teh structure. It's common to have the rod pointed way back at an angle with a locked drag & braided line to prevent teh fish from hanging you up.

Lifting fish into teh boat is another area where teh line and the butt of the blank are parallel.Another area where many rods are hig stuck and broken.

Boy to think of light line fishing for Steelhead and Salmon I would littorally point the butt of the rod at the fish. But that was also with the fish aways from me. Funny that I never broke a rod.

Seeing as I might have brought this whole issue up, it is most certainly an undefined enigma. And one must look to where the most power a rod can mustar is, to see where going beyond this point becomes hazardous to the blank. The power in a rod takes roughly place between 9:30 and 11:00 o'clock, where the back bone of the rod is used to maximum advantage. I've had lots of fish hold and sound in the current with the rod held to high (handle pointing back behind me), lowering the rod and "Short Stroking" the fish (between 9:30 and 11:00) will turn his head and move him. The whole issue with high-sticking is that it isolates one part of a section and applies nearly the whole load uopn it, which it is not designed to endure. Normally the tip section, near the tip 10-13" down.

I understood high-sticking occurrs when the fish is at or near your feet and the rod handle is pointing to 12 o'clock high or back behind you, moreover there is very litle pressure placed on the fish and lots on just a segment of the rod blank. So in therory from what I understood the angle high-sticking must start to begin at is somewhere past 90 degrees (measured relative to where the fish is at any particular time) Taper, flex, and the blank's constituent materials would have to affect resistance to high sticking. Case in point an 90/10 extra fast flexing rod would be more suseptable to high-sticking and at a reduced angle than a 60/40 slow action blank that might bend well into the butt section and through the reel seat and take a greater degree of highsticking angle to cause failure.

Yes, a high action angle rod is more susceptible to high sticking than a lower action angle rod because as the action angle increases the load moves toward the tip section. But high sticking is not getting the rod to 90 degrees or vertical. High sticking starts at about 45 degrees.
This thread started because Bruce asked the question "what is high sticking". He could not find a definition. He could not find one because there isn't one, at least not in any quantitative terms. In my judgment an angle higher than 45 degrees with a load equal to the maximum line rating of the rod, which is the way at least one rod manufacturer tests their rods, is a practical definition.

Scott - how long are your Salmon Steelhead rods? Someone I know recently lifted a 15# Squid 10 feetup over teh rail on a fishing boat, adn had a 7'6 20-40# SW rod explode 3 feet from the tip. Rod was pointed straight up, tip straight down.

Billy, actually I was using a 9 foot 8wt fly rod moderate action(we fish fly rods and reels but spool up with mono). But I gotta say it was never that steep an angle when to fish was close, this was more of a running away from you type of thing and I don't lock my drag down either. I did see a few guys blow up rods on big fish, but these guys were using 15 to 20 # test line on a 8 or 9wt fly rod and clamping down on the spool. Sounds like a rifle shot when they break like that.

Emory:

My claim that I may have started this whole highsticking question, was based on a thread I posted some 11 threads or so eariler "Ranking self depricating (rod) Failures where I indicated that HIGH-STICKING was the 3rd most common cause of Operator error incurred rod failure. I did not elaborate on the elusive definition, so as there has been no other indication of High Sticking posted in many many pages (that being the most recent) it is not a great jump to conclude that my previous post lead to this one and thus my statement in this thread that I may have started this whole high sticking quandry is much more than probable and should not be so easily dismissed as inaccurate, or require deposing

In My opinion, high sticking (always relative to where the fish is positioned at any given time) must take in account a rod being loaded past the 90 degree angle as short-stroking a fish (using the rod between 9:30 and 11:00 o'clock) approximates using a rod at a 45 degree angle (plus or minus 15 degrees) and is within the safe operating power range one commonly uses to pump a fish, (short-stroke) putting as much pressure as possible on a fish without putting undue stress on the rod. Thus using the rods inheriant back bone efficently for maximum effect without harm. I do believe that G-Loomis once circulated a phamplet on each production rod and in the back of their catalog near the warranty information, indicating this exact information with a corresponding picture showing approx when highsticking takes place and was well past 45 degrees. (releative to the fishes location) G-loomis did this because high sticking is in the top 3 way operator error incurred rod failures, so there has indeed been a published (depicted) defination which also indicated the power range one should use a rod and coinsidently is the same as I just described.

Watch the pros on TV swing a fish into the boat with their "off" hand reaching up and grabbing the rod between the second and third guide to give THEM enough lever. I don't care how many protractors you have to measure the defined angle it may not help with the rate of returns back through the door. Maybe Tom, Emory, Doc and Ralph on a ESPN hour at prime time would save all of us a fortune!

Maybe the Deer could be the moderator prime sponsor for this event - immediately prior to the Super Bowl would be nice!

Gon Fishn

Many thanks to all who responded to my request for an explanation of 'high sticking". (Yes, it was Chris Karp's thread that had me curious.) As I had sort of guessed, the term is one of those 'self evident' things which are intuitively understood by those who are interested in both the sport and the equipment used rather than a term with a Webster's definition. Thanks for all the efforts.....