Evening all,

Here in England nobody uses or has even heard of the Spiral / Acid wrap, so I want to be different and have one built. I need advice though. Will it work on a 5'6" single handed rod rated up to 20gm lure weight.? If so, what about guides, how many & spacings etc? Also, is the transition from top of the blank to underside gradual or does it occur over just a couple of guides? Which way should the spiral run from the butt, left or right?

I am acquiring a Bass Pro Tourney Special sacrificial rod over the next couple of weeks.

Many thanks in advance.

Simon C. Joseph.

RBO FORUM SEARCH:
= BUMPER
= SPIRAL
= BUMPER GUIDE
For LAST YEAR or ALL DATES; SUBJECT + MSSG-TEXT

IFyou can get Back Issues of the RodMaker Magazine outside of the Continental United States, THEN order RMM-8(2) APRIL 2005.

"The SIMPLE SPIRAL WRAP: The BUMPER SYSTEM"
Author: William "Bill" Colby [RMM-8(2)]
RodMaker Magazine Volume-8, Issue #2, pages 16-17
Back issues ($7 each) available at www.rodmakermagazine.com

IMO, The 2 photographs and the 2 illustrations tell it all,
and they clarify much of the confusion of the earlier
Posts made before Colby's Article in RMM-8(2) was widely
available to most subscribers of RMM. ... -Cliff Hall+++

Bumper Wrap Guide Placement
Leon Mack ... January 3, 2006 10:53AM
Question: For baitcasting rods why are we placing the guides in a conventional manner and then rotating them around 180 degrees. Wouldn't it be better to place the guides in a spinning rod style and rotate the first one 180 degrees? Generally when I place the guides in a spinning rod fashion I end up with at least one less guide and therefore less weight added to the blank. Comments, suggestions please.

Re: Bumper Wrap Guide Placement
Tom Kirkman (Moderator) ... January 3, 2006 10:57AM
The process was written about that way because I get about 25 to 30 emails a week asking for instructions on how to set up a spiral wrap. Most of these guys already know how to set up a standard guides on top baitcasting or conventional rod so I wrote the instructions so that they wouldn't have to learn anything new. Easy for them to do - easy for me to explain in quick fashion.

There are many ways you can do this, but if you go the route you're talking about, be careful not to set those first two guides apart by more than about 9 to 11 inches.

This is pretty standard on most casting type rods. Then, the bumper guide goes in-between those two. -Tom Kirkman.

After trying several versions I tend to favor the simple spiral wrap as outlined in the V8 #2 Rodmaker. It just lets the line go where it wants to go and doesn't use any actual transition guides. Do a search on it and see if you can turn up the original material or synopsis of it on this site. It works really well and I've used it on short bass rods as well as surf rods with excellent results.

I agree.

I just made a simple spiral that really turned out well, and it's so easy anyone can build one. I'm very pleased with my 1st simple spiral, so much in fact I doubt I'll use any other method unless someone shows me better.

DR

My first rod was a simple spiral.....I built 4-5 others....just align it like a baitcaster and rotate all the guides after the first guide 180 degrees or to the bottom. Next half way between the first and second guide place a guide to roll you over to the bottom, this is at 90 degrees. That should do it!




Simon C. Joseph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Evening all,
>
> Here in England nobody uses or has even heard of
> the Spiral / Acid wrap, so I want to be different
> and have one built. I need advice though. Will it
> work on a 5'6" single handed rod rated up to 20gm
> lure weight.? If so, what about guides, how many
> & spacings etc? Also, is the transition from
> top of the blank to underside gradual or does it
> occur over just a couple of guides? Which way
> should the spiral run from the butt, left or
> right?
>
> I am acquiring a Bass Pro Tourney Special
> sacrificial rod over the next couple of weeks.
>
> Many thanks in advance.
>
> Simon C. Joseph.

Thanks for the prompt replies.

Having had a brief look as some of the related threads, I don't think it's going to be a problem.

I do however have a couple of other questions. Do you think that it's a worthwhile exercise on the little Bass Pro and will it affect the casting abilities of the rod? What are the benefits or downsides?

TTFN,

Simon

SCJ asks: "Do you think that [doing a Spiral / bumper Wrap] is a worthwhile exercise on the little Bass Pro."

CMH: Yes, if you think that now is a good time for you to learn how to do a Bumper Wrap, then this rod will be the first Spiral Wrap you do. Granted, on a lighter casting rod, with smaller fish, the amount of torque force on the fishing rod in a conventional wrap is not as obvious. But that is because the magnitude of this "roll-over" effect (external torque) is relatively small. Within the realm of unnoticeable for the wrists & hands of most adults . That doesn't mean that that torque or "roll-over" force does not exist. Quite the contrary. It can be readily demonstrated with the proper device quite convincingly. But in-hand, bait-casting users just have accustomed themselves to it. I suppose it's a little like the Dutch wearing wooden shoes. They are comfortable until you wear a flexible sole for a few weeks - then there is no going back.

SCJ asks: "Will [a Bumper Wrap] affect the casting abilities of the rod? What are the benefits or downsides?"

CMH: A Spiral-Wrapped Rod will not inherently cast any better than a conventional wrap. But it will also not cast any worse. A Spiral Wrap WILL handle almost any size fish better than a conventional wrap. And the larger the fish and / or the heavier the reel's drag setting, then the better the fish-handling characteristics of the loaded rod. ...

CMH: Occasionally someone (has a customer) new to Spiral Wraps (that) feels that the casting is a little different. With the lightest lures, that may be true. But a more supple fishing line can help here. So would a smoother transition zone between the Butt Guide at 000 degrees and the Bumper Guide at 090 (or 270) degrees and the First Running Guide at 180 degrees. Obviously a lighter reel spool has less static inertia and THIS is the real issue. A little more flick of the wrist; or a less fast rod tip; or sending your thumb back to casting school for a one hour continuing- education course; or fiddling with the reel's braking system or spindle bearings settings may help. ...

With the lighest lures, any problems with the casting are caused more by the bait-casting reel; and the low kinetic energy of the lure and the lure's air resistance; and the fisher's casting ability with that particular taper-action rod, than anything else. Don't let a non-analytical critic tell you otherwise. When you look at the PHYSICS of casting, the frictional losses from Line Guides, in any sound sizing & placement configuration, has less of an effect on casting than the afore-mentioned non-rod factors.

Tthe reality is that the Line-Path of the Bumper System is as STRAIGHT and as SHORT as any spiral wrap can get, without passing THROUGH the fishing rod. Any other Spiral Wrap system uses at least one more transition guide, And on a bait-casting rod as short as 5'6", a shorter transition zone is superior. Basically, Simon, "It don't get no better than this." ... Go Spiral, go Bumper, and go get 'em !!! ... B)- ... -Cliff Hall, Gainesville, FL-USA.

Cliff,

Thanks for the above. It's appreciated.

With a baitcatser, do I stick with the same number of guides that I would normally use in a standard wrap, i.e all guides topside, or can the number be reduced? Also what guide sizes best suit a bumper wrap?

Apologies for the number of questions.

Simon

Cliff,

Here's the easiest way to start. Take what you have now and leave the guides in the same locations that they're in now. With the exception of the butt guide, spin them all to the bottom of the rod. wrap them right back where they are now but on the bottom of the rod instead of the top.

Now take one low frame casting guide, small ring like a #8 or so, and put it on the 90 degree axis exactly halfway between the butt guide and the next guide. Do no adjust the spacing of any of the guides to accomodate this - just add this one right between those first two. This guide only serves to keep the line off the blank as it skirts by on one side.

Generally you will end up with the same number of guides anyway, or pretty close, so just stick with the same number you have now. Some weight savings can be achieved by using smaller guides - since they're on the bottom of the rod they won't need to be as large nor as high to keep the line from contacting the blank under load. As you do more of these, you can tweak the spacing of the guides under the rod to your own liking.

..........

SIMON - READ TOM'S REPLY of 07:56AM / July 6, 2006 above.
I think TOM meant to say, TO SIMON (not "Cliff,-") B)- Cliff Hall.

I hear what you guys are saying about a single bumper at 90 deg, but as a thought, wouldn't a pair of guides evenly spaced between the butt and second intermediate guides, placed at 45 deg and 135deg give a smoother transition, given that everything else remains unchanged?

Simon

No. That bumper guide isn't there to transition anything - the line doesn't need to be transitioned. It will naturally go the bottom of the rod in a straight line between the butt and first 180 degree guide. That 90 degree bumper guide does not transition it or direct it - it just keeps the line off the rod blank.

Make sure that you do not adjust the spacing between the butt and first 180 degree guide to accomodate the bumper guide - it is an addition to, not a part of, the regular spacing.

As it turns out, there is little reason to use any sort of transition guides - the line will go to the bottom of the rod all by itself, if you'll let it.

...........

Thanks Tom. Point taken. One bumper at 90 degrees it is then.

Simon

Right. You could even leave that bumper guide off and the system would still work just fine, but over time the line would rub a dull spot on the side of the blank.

.............

Tom
I have pretty much settled for eliminating that bumper guide. What I do is align the first -stripper-guide a tad to the right, so instead of a 90deg. guide I have an 80deg. Then the first under guide is aligned a tad in the same direction, so instead of it being set at 180deg., it is set at 170deg. This 10deg offset is sufficient to keep the line off the rod about 90% of the time, and the very little amt of touching the line does to the rod is immateriel. On some rods I have added a couple coats of Permagloss on the rub area, but have found that the actual line rubbing is so slight, the Permagloss probably isn't doing much in the way of protection.
Ralph

The reason I came up with the bumper guide was so that you didn't have to offset those guides - on HD rods they can loosen in the wraps due to that offset and the lever arm effect.

But it will surely work - that's the way I did them for years until I started putting them straight up and straight down and using the bumper guide.

................

Out of interest, (as I'll be using the bumper method), what other types of spiral / acid wraps are there?

Many. The Revolver type (based on a very old and respected method) of guides at 0 - 60 - 120 and 180 in about 12 to 20 inches. The O'Quinn method (better read up on it RodMaker as it would be a bit lengthy to explain here.

It is my opinion that the Simple Spiral /Bumper method works as well as any other, is easier to set up and elminates any transition guides and related pressure on such guides.

They all work. Try several and decide which suits you best.

...........