Hi everyone-
This is one for all you surf casters. Have any of you noticed a discernable difference in the number of guides you use on a conventional rod as it relates to distance? Obviously, less guides = less restriction = more distance, but the static test for spacing says more guides. I do my test casting on a local lake- only place with enough room- so it's hard to judge . On a 9' 8" rod that I'm building for 2-4 oz. plugs, I'm currently at 7 guides with a + - 100 yd cast , judged by the amunt of line off the reel. I see other rods of the same size with as few as 5 which is how many I'd use for a spinner. What are your experieces?

A fishing rod has to do more than just cast a lure or weight - it also has to fight a fish and hopefully come home intact. All guide placement is somewhat of a compromise. More guides adds weight (which is really where any loss in distance will come from) but too few guides can put the rod in jeopardy when it's under heavy load.

I think on a rod of that length 7 is about the minimum I'd use, casting or spinning. You might try 5 to see how it affects casting distance, but I don't think you'll gain much, if any.


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Five guides on a 9' or 10' surf rod isn't my idea of a good custom rod building job. I know older rods were made that way but I've had some lines break on rods with too few guides and I think not having enough guides and therefore too much of a line angle on the guide ring was the culprit.

Mark Tobiasz - I know that I am a little confused as to whether you are building this 9'8" Surf Rod Blank for throwing 2-4 oz plugs into a SPINNING Rod (as for a Penn 750 Spinning Reel), or into a REVOLVING- SPOOL "Conventional" CASTING Rod (as for a Penn 545-GS or 525-Mag Casting Reel).

I suppose you do mean both the REEL - AND- the GUIDE LAY-OUT (Set-Up) will be "CONVENTIONAL" - with a Casting Reel -AND - a "Guides -on- Top" Rod Layout.

A Guides-on-Top Layout of at least 7 guides sounds workable, depending on your Guide Style & Size, and the Rod's Taper. Once you do a trial Static Loading Test, it would not surprise me if the rod needed ~10 guides to smooth out the curve and keep the fishing line above the rod blank on deep bends.

If this is a SPINNING ROD, then 7 Guides would not be too many. Your choice for Guide Styles & Sizes will also make a big difference in this case as well.

If you are hitting distances of ~ 250+ feet with the Guide Set-Up as you have it now, and if you are good with that, then it is unlikely, IMO, that further refining the Guide Selection or Placement will give you anything more than a 5% (~15 feet) improvement.

IMO, the Fisherman's casting TECHNIQUE (and his consistency), and the INITIAL choice of the ROD BLANK have a greater effect on Casting Distance than Guide Selection & Placement under ACTUAL FISHING CONDITIONS.

I suppose that most highly tweaked-out Tournament-style Surf Casting Rods would last about 6 tides; or maybe 2 alligator bluefish; or maybe 1 real cow striper around Montauk, or any sort of near-shore or on-shore hazards.

Throwing plugs that large (2-4 oz.), there ain't nothing dainty about that stick, so, after sufficient Casting Distance, STURDY is the other word that comes to mind.

Good Luck, Mark Tobiasz. ... -Cliff Hall+++, FL-USA

P.S. - To those who have not done so already,
Check out the Static Load Distribution Article:
STATIC GUIDE PLACEMENT by Tom Kirkman
[www.rodbuilding.org]

Wow! Thanks for the response guys!.
First, I should tell you, this is'nt the first surf stick I've built, but I allways like to hear what others have to say, it's the best way to improve on what you know.
It is a casting rod, Penn 525 reel on a 10' American Tackle Patriot blank rated up to 6 oz. casting weight,(can you imagine!) that I've cropped 4" at the tip. I did this to help stop any residual flex/vibrations that occur after the rod unloads as I felt that it was causing backlashes when the flexing tip would throw a wave into the line that the reel would overrun. Seems to work so far. Tom, you're absolutely right- playing and landing are paramount which is a reason to use more guides or maybe a higher frame?
Ken, I had the same thought about line breakage, but a guy I talked to who had been " building sticks for 25 yeah..." (also the guy who said 5 guides) said go to heavier line- I was planning on 65 lb PowerPro based on it's diameter, I think the braids stay a little limper- and I don't think heavier line is the answer I'm looking for. Again, more guides. And yes Cliff- nothing dainty here- I'll make it look nice but we will be taking a beating together up here on the rocks of New England. Slammer blues and good size bass - my best last year was almost 44", released- are the targets. I'm looking for good distance to be able to reach 'em . I am getting consistant distance with 8 guides( I added one last night) and with a static test at 12 lbs the line stays off the rod. I think you're all right- more guides is the better bet !. Whew! After all this, I think I need to line up one of my fly rods and go fishing on the stream down the street. Thanks again!