Which manufacturers tell you "how much" of a composite their blank is?
That is, what proportion of glass / graphite mix?
Internet addresses would be good - thanks?

Or is this a silly question? You'll let me know!
Robert

Rainshadow would tell you I believe. Site is to the left. Email address is on the site.

CTS will tell you, however their blanks don't contain any glass at all, because there is no scrim (which is usually the glass component in the blank). CTS will also tell you how much of the rod is made from what modulus of material, so there is no ambiguity about what you're getting in terms of the multi-modulus design.
The standard cloth that everyone uses (some variation of) is usually about 25% glass scrim, and 75% carbon. The problem with a glass scrim is not just the weight of the glass, but the fact that a glass scrim is a fairly open weave and a larger diameter fiber, thus it takes a lot of resin to fill the weave and the fiber...which subsequently adds quite a bit of weight to the blank as well.

Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing Products

It's not a silly question, but the more I build rods the less I worry about modulus, and concern myself with how they use it. The hype used to sell store boughts usually isn't discussed here much. If you do an author search of Andy above you'll see a bunch of posts that illustrate this point maybe a year back or a little less.

SHORT ANSWER: “Bob, no offense, but, IMO, it’s not so much a silly question as it is an impractical one. Since the dynamic performance of the rod blank is what is consequential, the structural composition of the raw materials is somewhat irrelevant. Enough other physical & methodical variables come into play (rod taper, OD, ID, resin content, curing treatment, etc.) that over-simplifying & drawing tenuous conclusions is all we’d be doing. The end-game is that our comparison would still be fairly “iffy”. ... IMO, -CMH+++”

MINI-TOME: “Robert Heaton – The following is a round-about / sketchy answer to your direct question, but it's a start. ...

In general, I for one cannot recall any Manufacturer divulging nor Vendor listing the ratios of Graphite to Fiberglass in a Composite pre-preg cloth, nor in a finished rod blank. Nor the % Graphite; % Fiberglass; nor % Resin. ...

I imagine that is considered PROPRIETARY INFORMATION and fairly well guarded. No point in TELLING your competition too much about what your raw materials are ! At the same time, these Manufacturers probably use many of the same suppliers for various raw materials, and that information is less of a secret within the industry itself.

As a rod-builder, IMO, when you have access to ALL the rod specifications for a composite rod blank (or even a "pure" graphite or "pure" fiberglass rod blank*), you can tell something about the quality of the Composite. Sometimes you can compare the similarity of those specs for the Composite to the specs for an all-Graphite or all-Fiberglass rod in the SAME Series of Rod Blanks or ones with similar Line-Lure Ratings.

IMO, the combination of specs that you want to compare are the ROD BLANK WEIGHT, and the Butt OD and the TIP OD. Again, this comparison assumes "all other things being equal": the SAME rod Length; Taper-Action; Power; Line & Lure Rating. Then the Blank Weight, Butt OD and Tip OD give some idea of the VOLUME of material it took to achieve the same physical strength using two different materials. … Yes, the WALL THICKNESS is still a hidden variable that is CRITICAL to the rod’s action-taper, but that’s about all the conditions for comparison that we are able to consult.

This comparison of analogs is often NOT possible in a strict sense because "all other things being equal" is often only loosely true. Batson is one manufacturer that clearly has several Series of Rod Blanks which PARALLEL each other in Rod Ratings, but use 2 materials of different MODULUS to give "the same" rod blank in a different Series. As one example, look at this dynamic Batson duo: .

BATSON ENTERPRISES - RainShadow & ForeCast Rod Blanks
Mag Bass / Flipp'n Stick Blanks (IMB / MB / IFS / FT)
[www.FishSticks4U.com]

RS-RX7: IFT-90-5 ... Matte Clear ... 7'6" ... 1 T (Telescoping) ...
10-25 lb. ... 1/4 - 1-1/2 oz. ... 0.635" ... 7.0 / 64ths ...
Mod-Fast ... Hvy ... 3.25 oz. ... $75.00 – Add [FS4U]

FC-RX6: FT-90-5 ... Clear Gloss ... 7'6" ... 1 T (Telescoping) ...
10-25 lb. ... 1/4 to 1-1/2 oz. ... 0.585" ... 6.5 / 64ths
Mod-Fast ... Med-Hvy ... 3.20 oz. ... $41.47 – Add [FS4U]

RainShadow RX7 Flipp'n Stick Rod Blanks (Matte Clear)
• RX7 Intermediate Modulus (43 million), High Strain Rate graphite
• Magnum tapers for lifting power & ease of casting a variety of baits
• Limited Lifetime Warranty

Forecast RX6 Flipp'n Stick Rod Blanks
• RX6 Standard Modulus (33 million), High Strain Rate graphite
• Magnum tapers for lifting power & ease of casting a variety of baits
• Clear Gloss finish
• 2 Year Limited Warranty

In this comparison of Flipp’n Sticks RX7 verses RX6 (IFT v. FT), you KNOW what the material’s Modulus is – Batson tells us. From there, you can use that array of similarities to draw some inferences when comparing graphite rod blanks with composite rod blanks.

In the BATSON line-up of Rod Blanks, several other examples exist of pairs of rod blanks series designed in “parallel Ratings, different Modulus”. The ENTIRE MAG-Bass Series is available in “parallel” as RX7 (IMB) or RX6 (MB) modulus Graphite. Same Rod Ratings, with respect to Lure & Line; Length; Action; Power. Different Modulus. Other pairs of Batson Rod Blanks that are parallel in Ratings include (but not limited to):

• The RS-RX7 (IF-) and FC-RX6 (F-) “FLY-ROD” Series.
• The RS-RX7 (ISB-) and FC-RX6 (SB-) “SPIN-Bass” Series.
• The RS-RX7 (ISJ-) and FC-RX6 (SJ-) “SPIN-JIG” Series.
• The RS-RX7 (IMB-) and FC-RX6 (MB-) “MAG-Bass” Series.
• The RS-RX7 (IST-) and FC-RX6 (SH-) “Salmon / Steel-Head” Series.

FINALLY, to return (somewhat) to your original questions regarding COMPOSITES, this is all we are told about it:

RainShadow RX4 Saltwater Rod Blanks (Matte Clear)
• RX4 graphite/fiberglass matrix
• Uncompromising strength yet light weight
• Moderate thru Fast-Action designs
• 3 Year Limited Warranty

Clearly, that is very little info to go on. To compare one Manufacturers Composites to another’s may be like buying a used car – it’s a PACKAGE DEAL, take it or leave it!

IMO, it’s better to focus on the overall DYNAMIC rod performance criteria (Taper-Action; Length; Lure & Line Ratings) and let the rod’s PHYSICAL specifications (Material Composition & Modulus; Blank Weight; Butt OD; Tip OD, Color; Finish-Texture) be secondary considerations. …

“In a perfect world, … we ain’t !!!” … LOL!

The rest about the mysteries of rod blank structure and composition,
the pro’s and insiders will have to tell us. B)- … -Cliff Hall+++, FL-USA.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2006 06:36PM by Cliff Hall.

Robert,
There is actually very little in this industry that is secret among the manf. Most everyone gets their materials from one of a few sources....Aldila, Hexcel, Mitsubishi and a few others. The fibers ae pretty much the same, as are the mandrels. The warp and fill ratios are pretty much the same and to be honest most of the tapers are very close in design as well.

As one of my close friends that works for a MAJOR rod manf. says...."Don't kid yourself into believing otherwise, we all copy each other".


ANdy Dear
Lamar Fishing