Dear Friends:

I'm building a 130 lb trolling rods and I've some questions as I've never built such powerful kind of rods before.

I've already wrapped de underwrap and I was going to begin wrapping the roller feet. The idea was making a double wrap for this. The question is that I had thought on making all wraps before aplying epoxy. But I don't know if this will be maybe to thick (I mean the thread layers) to let the epoxy bonding threads to the wrap.

When shoul I apply finish?

1) Just after the first foot wrap and after the second one?. In this case the rollers' feet would be directly over the underwrap thread.
2) After the underwrap and before AND after the first foot wrap? I mean with some epoxy between the underwarp and the first foot wrap.
3) Just after all wraps are done, directly over the second one.

Looking forward to hearinf from you,


Daniel

Daniel Rotea
Alicante (Spain)

This is from a blue water heavy rod neophyte. I am building some very stout bottom fishing stuff. I just experience a very unique thing for me. The rods were underwrapped with A metallic thread. Guides were placed and double wrapped with D Gudebrod Black Nylon. The rods were white blanks and I used Threadmaster finish after wrapping was complete. I chose Threadmaster for these rods due to finish clarity. I used three coats. The first one was a light soaking coat where the thread pattern could be seen during the drying process. These rods were tested to with big fish and large loads to maximum bending. The rods had to be shortened. When I tried to strip the things after only 10 days I found a really sound penetration and good filling under all guide feet. When the thread was removed from the top of the guide feet the guides had to be heated for removal. I am now convinced that filling of guide feet and thread penetration can be done successfully after wrapping.

Gon Fishn

Daniel; When I do underwraps I do them with "A" thread with all the trim bands and thread inlays and apply a coat of CP if I need it and then a coat of Permaglos. I then apply a coat of CP and Permaglos on the first overwrap and then do the same on the last overwrap. In other words a coat of finish over each layer of thread. Then I finish with a high build Epoxy. Takes time but I like the results.

Jim - I do not work with any threads or do artwork that require me to use CP on blue water rods. I have never used Permaglos. I noticed a post the other day from Tom K about the superior strength of Permaglos. Would heavy duty blue water stuff have a better and stronger bond in the guide foot area with the use of the Permaglos on the first underlying coat. Is cured Permaglos brittle when cured. I use nearly all of the two part epoxies and normally thin the first penetration coat with acetone, less than 4% by volume, if not using LS Supreme as the first coat. I have not had any failures but would change if the Permaglos would provide superior strength and durability as the first coat.

Gon Fishn

I picked up a real trick from Doc Ski and it really works on the heavier rods. He puts about 10 or so coats of CP on before he starts the 2 stage epoxy stuff. I started doing this and it seems that everything is stronger but the hidden side effect is that when the rod gets pretty beat up after a number of years, the refinishing is sure a lot easier. On heavy saltwater stuff, the LS Supreme is my personal favorite and it seems to really hold up to abuse a lot better than the other finishes I have tried.

Bill; All I can suggest is that you try some. Put it on a test piece of blank let it dry and see what you think. I really like Permaglos. It penetrates very well and you can see it wick into the tunnels along the guide feet. Just keep applying it until it oozes out the open end. I should explain (as I said above) that I try to do all the fancy thread work on guides in the underwrap so if I need CP I use it there and then use NCP thread on the following guide wraps or Black so the Permaglos can penetrate. It also doesn't seem to blotch the way the Epoxy does. I don't know why but that's my feeling. Maybe I'm just getting better CP coverage now. I don't know how much difference there would be in bond strength and I really don't rely on finish for anything other than to protect the thread from abrasion and the elements. I've never had cracks in the finish after I learned to prepare the guide feet properly and I never thin the Epoxy finish. I do thin Gudebrod 811 CP just enough to keep it from being stringy or snotty so to speak.

I used Permagloss in a light spinning rod and I noteiced it doesn't change threas color in the same way epoxies do. So, my doubt is if I'll get the same "plain black" color in the black threads or if the threads will be "seen" through the finish. Unfortunatelly, I made the underwrap with D thread.

On te other hand, I think that there will be no problems (fisheyes and so) when applying epoxy over Permagloss. Can you confirm it?

And finally, I haven't any LS SUpreme. I just have Flexcoat, ThreadMaster and Aftcote. I liked ThreadMaster, but I'm having a lot of problems with it now. It's warm weather and I'm working between 85 and 90 F, so it gets "sticky" too quick and I have no time to finish more than 3 or 4 guides with a batch...

I've never tested Aftcote before. Wich one would you advice?



Daniel Rotea
Alicante (Spain)

Daniel - put a clock on your finishing 3 or 4 guides and let us know how long it takes you. I also work in a hot shop. I am probably hotter than you mention. I cut the air conditioner off to apply finish and dry. I can get a rod done before problems start with thickening of the finishes you mentioned. I rotate at speed and apply finish to a guide on a blue water rod in way less than a minute. I am normally done in less than 10 minutes after starting application.I think the only finish that ever timed out on me regularly was Glass Coat and it is no more.

Daniel,
I swear by Threadmaster so I'm interested in the time also. Have you considered setting yor mixed finidh on something cool? Sounds silly, but if you pour youf finish onto foil, maybe set your foil on an icepack wrapped in a towel or something so it doesn't get too cool? Might work.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2006 03:58PM by Mike Barkley.

And be sure to get your finish out of the mixing container ASAP after it has been mixed. Pour it out on some foil and let it spread out. The spreading will reduce the mass which in turn causes it not to heat up as fast as it would in the mixing cup. Less heat = slower kick time.

Jay