It is my first post here, so first of all I would like to say: Hello Everyone :)

I try to make a light/med-light casting rod. For this purpose I bought Batson Rainshadow RX7 ISB 781 blank ( 6'6", 1/8-3/8oz, 6-12 lb, one piece) and Fuji Alconite guides (BFAT #6 top, some #6 & #7 fly guides, #7 & #8 bridge guides, #10 & #12 two-foot guides).

Now, I have to wrap this guides. I've tried some different spacings already, and finally I ended up with 11 guides (5 of them #6 fly) which I guess can have its impact on the blank performance. On the other hand, when I use less guides line scrub(friction) problem occurs pretty badly.
Unfortunatelly, I have not found in the LIbrary section an article about e.g. New Concept for casting rods or sth, so I have turn to You for help.
If anyone have already made a casting rod out of ISB 781 and wouldlike to share one's opinion I would be the most obliged.
Frankly, I would be grateful for any advise :)

Best regards,
Pavel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2006 09:14AM by Pawel Tymendorf.

Pawel,
I am familiar with that blank and it is a very nice blank and I think you will like the rod when you complete it. However, that is a lot of guides and yes that many guides will lower the rods performance. 7 or maybe 8 guides should be plenty. The size of the guides you are using sounds about right but why are you using fly guides? In your shoes I think that I would use the #10 and #12 double footed that you have and use single footed ceramics for the rest of the guides.
As far as the friction between the line and the blank is concerned I would use the static method that is described in the Library section above for positioning the guides and not worry too much about the friction between the blank and the line. Normally when the rod will be at maximum deflection the line is not moving. If the line is not moving there is no friction between the line and the rod and it does not harm anything if the line touches the rod.

Thank you Harry,

this "fly" guides ar actually single footed ceramics as you described, they are sometimes reffered to as "fly" maybe because of this single foot so I followed the pattern, in fact they are standard single foot guides.

Well, of course I started with static method and that is how I ended up with 11 guides ;) all to prevent line scrub. To me, line scrub is a kind of a problem because I am going to use braided line with this rod ( Power Pro). And sometimes, when the rod is bent, the line moves throught the guides - just imagine the situation that you are "pumping" fish to the surface while in the boat, the fish catches "breath" on the surface an dives - hopefully your drag is set according to line power, but nevertheless the rod is bent, the fish dives and takes the line.

Besing not able to find a compromise so far, between line scrub problem and number of guides, I start to think seriously about spiral wrapping...





Best regards,
Pavel

I would suggest the spiral warp. The benefits will far out way any thing else you could choose to do. I personally don't build a bait caster that is not spiral wrapped. On a side not if you choose not to do a spiral wrap, and it takes 11 guides to keep the line off the blank. Then that is what it takes. I have an 8' bait caster med. that has 13 guilds, and it out casts anything I own.

Pawel,
I think that is good advice to go to a spiral wrap before adding that many guides. However, if you are going to use the rod as a boat rod and are not going to use it to cast I would not worry too much about the extra guides. But if you are going to use the rod to cast with, the extra guides add weight. The weight reduces the resonant frequency and the tip velocity. When you cast you store up energy in the rod in the first part of the cast. You determine how much energy is stored in the rod by how much force you use and how rapidly you apply the force. But the rod and the rods resonant frequency determines how rapidly that energy is released. In other words, the more guides the slower the rod will release the energy and the shorter the cast will be.

Steve,
If you have an 8' bait casting rod with 13 guides that will out cast anything that you own then I would take a close look at the other rods that you own and if you were to reduce the number of guides on that 8' bait caster it will guaranteed cast farther than it does now or cast a given distance with less effort.

Gentlemen,

one more thing if I may ask. Browsing this (superb!) forum I've frequently came across statement that line should go in a straight line through the guides (in casting rods). That every unnecessary contact, friction between the line and the guide causes line to speed down, even may lead to backslashes etc.

In spiral wrap line is not straight as a preasumption. No matter I use "bumper" or revolver wrap the line will not go straight through the guides. How does it affect line speed, casting distance etc?

Best regards,
Pavel

Pawel,
You are right about the line going as straight as possible through the guides. When there is friction between the line and the guide part of the forward momentum of the line is lost, it loses energy. The energy is not actually lost, most of it is reflected back toward the reel and this can result in more back lashes. When you cast if you will watch the line going through the guides you can actually see this, there will be a standing wave in the line. Usually the largest standing wave in the line will be between the reel and the first guide.
Now to the spiral wrap. I believe that the line path cannot be as straight through a spiral wrap as through guides that are conventionally wrapped. However, I have to say that there are those knowledgeable rod builders that content that the line path can be as straight with a spiral wrap when the guides are positioned properly as with conventionally positioned guides. I would suggest that you do some experimenting with different guide positioning and test casting and make up your own mind.

Harry,

that is what I am going to do :) I know that many serious and renowned rodmakers reccomends spiral wrap, but - so far - I think that it is a bit contradictory with the straight line "doctrine". Straight means straight. So far it is hard to imagine for me that the line in spiral wrap will not curve, while in transition from up to the bottom . I have to give it a try !

Best regards,
Pavel