I understand (and have used) static guide placement on a "conventional" guide setup. But I'm a little confused on exactly how to do it for a bumper guide setup.

Per the Static Guide Placement library article, do I still: "Glue on your tip-top and make sure it is secure. Tie a line to the tip and fasten that to an object, or to a container that allows you to apply any amount of load needed" before beginning? If so, does that mean gluing the tip at 180 degrees - where it will permanently go?

Following the "normal" bumper method, would I then static setup all my guides (except the bumper) at 0 degrees? After that, then flip all the guides (except butt guide) and add the bumper half way between butt and next guide? I'm just not sure how the static placement will work if the tip is at 180 instead of 0 degrees.

Or do I go ahead place all the guides (including the bumper) in the degree "orientation" they end up in and static setup from there?

I would really appreciate hearing how others do this.

Just do it like you always have for conventional guide places. Once you're done, flip the guides over except for the butt guide.

That article you quote was not written for the bumper system. Use hot melt to affix the top, then when you're ready to flip the guides, heat the tip just a tad and spin the tip top upside down with the rest of the guides.

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The tip top will have to be 180 away from the reel seat when it comes time for final assembly.
I mount the butt grip, reel seat, fore grip and then fasten the tip top permanently 180 from the seat.
I place the stripper guide and then attach the guides with tape (or whatever you like) and start the process of adjusting guide placement. It's not hard it just takes a little bit of time.
The rods that I have been wrapping have a strong parabolic arc so the bumper guide does not fall exactly in between the stripper and the second guide.
With the guides on the bottom the spacing may change a little but it will be to the rods advantage and you may be able to use one less guide than if they were on top.

I eliminate the step of putting the guides on top. They will be closer together to keep the line off the blank. Thus more guides.
I put the top at the 180. Then place my guides all at 180. Static test adjust. Then flip the butt guide up to 0. Size the guide for reel, foregrip touching, then static test and add the bumper. Less time.

I'll here it for this.

Curtis,

On the simple spiral system the bumper guide will fall exactly halfway between the butt and second guide, no matter what type action you have. If you're locating the bumper guide with static distribution, you are not implementing the system properly.

Remember, you would not have the bumper guide on the rod while you're doing the static distribution - it's an addition to the final spacing, not part of it.

Certainly it will still work - but what you have is some sort of 90 degree transition spiral, not the simple spiral and there will be a difference in how they work.

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2006 08:07AM by Tom Kirkman.

Tom,

I certainly don't have the credentials to question your system but let me make an observation based on my own experiences to date.

Arbitrarily putting the bumper exactly halfway between the butt and #2 guides may be perfect in theory and does work great with a only downward load applied. The problem I have when a load is applied to the opposite side of the bumper, the line rubs the blank. In my case, I fish moving baits to my left and the bumper is on the right... since the upper part of the blank flexes more than the stiffer butt section, the #2 guide and bumper "move" more than the butt guide. That difference in rate of movement is the exact reason I have not been able to locate a bumper exacly halfway or at 90 degrees yet. I had had perfect results moving the bumper a tad back towrds the butt (anywhere from 1/4" - 3/4" depending on the blank) and a few degree up, still along the line angle. In effect this allows the bumper to "follow" the #2 guide any direction it happens to go and retains line clearance from the butt guide in any situation. The added benifit, as I see it, is less stress on the bumper because it is a little closer to the butt guide, the line stays between 5 and 7 o'clock at all times under any load.

This may not fall in the true definition of the "Simple Spiral" but it is still simple in the sense that there is a single transition guide and it is easy to set up.

Like you said "but what you have is some sort of 90 degree transition spiral, not the simple spiral" This is probably where I fall. and I'm ok with that. ...lol I only care how it fishes!

Again, You are the expert on this subject, but a minor modification to your system gives me the desired results. I'll never build a conventional casting rod!

I have only built bass rods so if there is a difference in other applications, I'm sorry to confuse the situation.

Keith, if you always fish with the bait in the left, why not simply put the bumper guide on the left side?

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

The stated bumper guide placement should work, on any type rod, if the first two guides are not too far apart. In nearly every case where I've seen a situation such as yours, the first two guides had been placed too far apart. What the builder/s had done, was to use the bumper as part of the standard static placement which resulted in the bumper guide being used to carry part of the load. It isn't designed to do that.

As you already know, you can set up your rod in any way you wish and call your set up whatever you want. My only concern is that when people do something different and then tell another angler that they're using the simple spiral/bumper system, if that system isn't what has been described and if it should happen not to work very well, then the system gets a bad rap. I've already seen this happen in several cases and heard some builders say that they won't use the Simple Spiral because they saw one and it didn't work. Trouble is, what they saw, wasn't the Simple Spiral.

But please don't think that I'm telling you that you're doing it wrong or that you need to do something different - I'm not saying that at all. If you have a system that you find works for you particular application, you would be foolish not to stick with it. I'm glad you've taken the time to fine tune a placement that works for your application. I wish more would spend time to tweak things to suit exactly what they need their rod to do. That's an important part of custom rod building.

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I only fish moving baits to the left... swimbaits, spinnerbaits, crankbaits, etc. All of my worm, jig, and slow stuff is normally straight on. The reason I put the bumper on the right, is to keep it on the handle side of the reel... it allows the rod to lie flat on the deck or if I turn it over, the handle keeps the rod high enough to keep the bumper off the deck... seems more protected like that.

Tom, I agree with your post, and from reading hundreds of posts here I know what you are saying. I think the greatest span between butt and #2 guides I have on any rod is about 11.5" and if I remember correctly, they are more like about 10"-11" as an average. Maybe too close by some standards but they cast awesome, and I never get line touching the blank. As I said, my line path on the bumper stays between 5 and 7 o'clock during all load ranges, so it's not carrying any weight.

I also see your point on calling a variant by the simple/bumper name. How about the "OTS"? "Other than simple" ...lol

Thanks for the last 2 lines, I take that as a huge compliment!

Fred, Sorry to hijack your thread!

Best to all,

Keith