Just got my 13' Forecast Spey back from the finish shop and am very happy with it. Spent the weekend casting with it. It is a ton of fun; especially when people mistake the deep-blue color of the blank or a $800 Thomas & Thomas! The blank was $60.

But, it just flew apart at a ferrel in the middle of a big role cast. No big deal really, but it did cause a little damage to the epoxy on the wrap. Probably my fault because I didn't tape the ferrels before casting.

Just a small crack in the finish on the guide/ferrel wrap. The crack in the finish is probably a 1/4" long and no thread is exposed. There is also some trauma to the finish around the crack. I am concerced about the future health of this ferrel, but I will probably resort to taping each time I cast. That seems to be an accepted practice. My main concern is fixing the crack so I can catch some fish!

Any suggestions regarding the repair of this cracked finish at the very base of the female ferrel? Epoxy? Hypo-needle? Some non-viscous adhiesive deep in the crack? Or, wrap over the crack and re-finish?

Thanks in advance!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2006 05:22PM by Robert Grabb.

Two options come to mind...but there are probably more.
1. Sand down the whole wrap and re-finish
or
2. tear-down and re-wrap/finish. (probably what I would do)

RB

Robert I don't understand why taping the ferrule is an accepted practice??? There should be no need to tape anything. If the rod sections were properly wrapped and finished than the reason they came apart was most likley caused by joining them together in the wrong way. Sectional blanks are best put together by aligning them off center and then pushing and twisting them together into proper alignment. Easy to do, harder to explain in print. You might just need some finish repair on the rod and thats easy, but I'd want to take a good look at the damaged area to be sure that the ferrule edge didn't suffer. You could look at it with some magnification to be sure.

With option 1, I assume it would be just the lower wrap that you would sand down? Any tricks to sanding down the finish? Do you get into the blank, and you take the wrap completely off. Any ideas on how to tear-down? Is this common?

Grant,

Any suggestion on repair? You mentioned finish repair? Is that available from Flex Coat of U40? Or is it just the same finish expoxy? Going to take a look at the blank now with some magnification.

Thanks for the advice.

PS Thanks for pointing out my spelling of ferrule!

I'd heat the ferrule (note spelling), peel off the finish (slice some off carefully with a razor blade to get to threads) and thread wraps and re-wrap and finish.

Rob Grabb - When you try to look INSIDE the Female end of the ferrule, can you see any kind of bruising / damage / cracking? If you shine a very bright light on the outside at various angles, can you see any fissures or extra shiny spots or split ends on the graphite fibers? Also, a very close look at the male end may give you some more insight when you look it over as well.

IMO, Chances are that removing the current ferrule wrap is really the only sensible way to go, unless you don't mind fishing with a time-bomb for a ferrule, one that could explode without warning, putting an abrupt end to your day on the water and leaving you stick-less.

Doing this intensive visual inspection will give you a better idea of exactly what kind of (permanent?) damage occurred when the two halves of the rod flew apart during casting. This way, when you finish your inspection, you'll know what you are dealing with. I have never had any luck trying to repair similar cracking in the female end. Just re-wrapped and hoped for the best (no warranty on those few rods) - no disasters, but your mileage may vary.

Good Luck, -Cliff Hall+++

P.S. - ALWAYS wrap with thread the FEMALE side of any ferruled rod blank BEFORE you load the joined rod blank. Do NOT cast it. Do NOT flex the joined rod blank across the ferrule until you WRAP the FEMALE's tube. Any wham-bam thread job will do. The LENGTH of the ferrule wrap should be ~ 1 or 2 times the diameter of the rod blank. No CP or epoxy is needed. You are just doing this to protect the female ferrule from splitting open. You can slice off the quickie thread job later, before you do your final guide wraps later. The thread-wrap on the ferrule will not come loose because you did not epoxy or CP it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2006 06:58PM by Cliff Hall.

DOUBLE POST - DELETED - by Cliff Hall



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2006 05:53PM by Cliff Hall.

A thought: Try waxing the ferrels. Build up a pretty good layer, then push the pieces together. It helps them to fit better.

Using U40 Ferrule Lube will go a long way in preventing this from happening if the ferrules fit properly. Keep the ferrules clean and lubed with Ferrule Lube for a good snug fit. Taping is used on many spey rods because of worn and or dirty ferrules. The main thing is to have a tight fitting properly built ferrule.
If it were my rod - I would do as Cliff has suggested-carefully inspect it and if the crack or cracks approach a diameter in length I would remove the ferrule wraps and put a fiberglass over sleeve on the ferrule then rewrap and refinish.
The Forecast spey blanks are indeed an excellent value.
Joe Kassuba
HIS Rod Shop

It is common practice to tape the ferrules of Spey rods here in Scotland. I use electrical insulating tape. The act of Spey casting does put a lot more strain on a rod than overhead casting and a couple of turns of tape doesn't do anything to spoil the action of the rod.
I built a 14ft 10 wt forecast spey rod and think it is fantastic value for the money, and a good rod at any price!
I would remove the wrap completely with a razor blade, inspect the blank for signs of damage, and rewrap.
David Olley
Balmoral



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2006 06:05AM by David Olley.

Cliff,

Just finished getting a good look at the female ferrule, and there is a small crack in the blank!

What now? Is the rod useless?

Thanks,

Robb

Rob Grabb - The rod is not useless.
For right now, do not do anything to it.
LEAVE THE FERRULE WRAP ALONE.

Long Story short - now that you KNOW and can SEE that there is in fact a crack / split; taking the wrap off may cause a mis-alignment of the fibers when you relax the pressure on the fissure. Or the epoxy may adhere to the rod blank enough that when you remove the epoxy, you may propagate the crack or cause the fibers to mis-align.

If re-alignment of these micro-fibers is not EXACTLY perfect when you re-wrap, you will get a crushing / grinding action in the fissure on the out-of-joint fibers when you flex the rod, because they will not dove-tail (tongue in groove) correctly any more. The ferrule diameter will increase by a tiny fraction of a millimeter, and the ferrule union between the male & female will be prone to loosening. I think things will go better if the wrap is left alone than if it is re-wrapped.

Since I cannot see the crack, or exactly where it is, or exactly how much it seems to open when the rod is flexed, my advice is a remote diagnosis. But that is about all that we can do, short of a great photograph of the patient and more physical description of the problem.

Whatever you do, do NOT put a WAX in the ferrule. A lubricant will work it's way into the fissure, like a lubricated wedge, and push the crevice open, a bit like ice water cracking a rock. The wax does not expand upon crystallization, like water turning into ice. BUT what DOES happen is the male ferrule forms a tight union with the female ferrule. When the rod flexes, it makes the wax FLOW. BUT the wax cannot flow out of the FERRULE JOINT - SO it actually FLOWS INTO the forward edge of the crack (and out the back end toward the female's mouth). Just as hydraulic fluid or automotive brake fluid is able to move mountains or exert great pressure, a fluid like wax (which is only slightly compressible and flows fairly easily), can force open a crack in your rod ferrule, and make it worse by the repeated opening-closing of the crack, caused by repeated flexing-relaxing of rod blank across the ferrule. ... Yes, most of the energy for increasing the crack in the ferrule comes from the rod's movement, and the force from the wax as a hydraulic "wedge" fluid is secondary. But the wax will really just complicate things with its ability to lube & wedge open the crack, and retain grit in the ferrule & the fissure.

Some guys may have had some success trying to interject a low-viscosity, quick-drying glue into the crack, like the original Krazy Glue (a Cyano-Acrylate). But it will freely cover the inside of the female ferrule, and then you will have to carefully and precisely remove the CA glue from inside the female tube. Things could go from bad to worse.

I gotta run for now, but will check back with you later (~3 hours.) Let me know if this makes sense to you, Rob Grabb, or if more discussion of the problem is needed. ...

Maybe Tom Kirkman or Ralph O'Quinn have more advice for you.
Good Luck, -Cliff Hall+++ cmkmhall@ufl.edu



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2006 04:00PM by Cliff Hall.

Everyone I've spey fished with does the 90 degree twist ferrule install than tape wrap the ferrules. Have yet to see a ferrule failure.

Cliff,

Thanks for all the info!! Makes perfect sense!

So, leave it alone? The crack is very small, but I suppose "small" is relative term when dealing with fly rod blanks.

What about wrapping directly over the damaged area and appling epoxy to provide greater support?

Thanks,

Robb

Some sanding of the wrap and another wrap and more finish couldn't hurt.

Robb Grabb - Yeah, dittos to Spence Phipps & Jeff Schatz. And dittos to your plan, Robb - just re-inforce the female ferrule wrap with an additional layer of thread & epoxy, and go fishing.

When using the rod for the day, assemble the ferrule-joint. Then just over-wrap the two halves of the ferrule together with a continuous wind of some tape from the female side over to the male side of the ferrule. Pick a tape that sticks well, but doesn't leave a gummy residue after you remove it. That should keep the two halves from flying apart ever again.

When you actually join the male end into the female end, you may have to use less then a 90-degree twist before seating the alignment. TORQUEING a cracked ferrule can make the crack worse. I think I would rotate the rod blank one full rotation under very light to nearly no fusion-friction, just to clear / clean off the mating surfaces, and with only a few millimeters of down-jamming distance left to go. Then when the two sections & guides are properly aligned JAMM that union shut, and no more twisting. Save the twisting action for when you have to crack open the union prior to transit or storage.

If there is no evidence of damage or breakage to the threads in the wrap that is over the female end of the ferrule now, then I would NOT attempt to remove the original ferrule wrap or epoxy at all. Just do a re-inforcement operation. Very light sanding of the original epoxy finish to give the new thread & new epoxy a foothold. Wrap the new layer of thread over original epoxy. Put on some new epoxy thread finish, and that's it. Those two permanent layers of thread (2 in total) should be all the re-inforcement the ferrule needs to keep from ever splitting out.

If you ever feel you need a ferrule lubricant, consider a dry lubricant like SHINY flaky lock-smith's graphite, or some Johnson & Johnson TALC Baby powder. NOT corn-starch, but TALC (which is a mineral). A tiny amount rubbed or dusted onto the male end should be all that is needed. Just a SHEEN. Rotate it inside the female, and that will spread it around to all her mating surfaces inside the tube. Good to go, Robb.

Just keep an eye on the crack, especially near the female's mouth. A quick check before leaving for each fishing trip should keep you apprised of how she's holding up. Chances are, that ferrule will last longer then many marriages. Fish her well and give us the good report. ... Good Luck, -Cliff Hall+++



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2006 10:22PM by Cliff Hall.

Thanks everybody: especially Cliff!

I am still pretty impressed by the Forecast blanks.

Robb Grabb - You're welcome. Hopefully including and discussing the details in this situation helps you understand WHY this or that advice makes (more) sense.

As long as the female tube has the male end firmly inside her when the ferrule is bent or stressed, the ferrule will not collapse. With use, small cracks develop in many ferrules that never fail, as long as the thread wrap remains intact and there is no internal implosion of rod fibers inside the tube.

I'll never forget a season with one boron rod (for seatrout & redfish). I kept an eye on a small crack in the rim of the female side of the ferrule, but the rod blank broke unexpectedly ~ 8 inches from the rod tip for no apparent reason. ... Go figure!

If for some reason you ever decide to re-build this Spey rod blank, if you bend the female side of the ferrule to re-confirm or re-align the spine, then don't roll the female's mouth on a hard surface. That may cause the split to crack open more or fracture elsewhere. Bend that rod section "male-end" down and hold the "female-end" up in your hand, so you don't ever put a serious load or weight DIRECTLY on the RIM of the crack in the female ferrule.

Happy fishing, -Cliff Hall+++



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2006 05:51PM by Cliff Hall.

Well,

I "succesfully" overwrapped the cracked finish and applied finish. The rod cast fine the other day, but my finish job left a little to be desired. IT IS UGLY! I am afraid I cheated when I initially built the rod, I had the finish work done professionaly, and they did an amazing job for $15. I figured I would try and learn something from this and do the finish myself for the one wrap. I learned that $15 is a pretty good deal for a finish I could never attain in my garage.