This is from a previous post abou the pros and cons of the REC recoil guides. There was a discussion about the hardness of the metal. When I got married I was looking at a titanium wedding band. The jewler told me that getting the ring was a bad idea incase my finger grew to wide they wouldn't beable to get the ring off by cutting it. He told me that I would end up loosing my finger if it came down to that. Was I being taken for a sucker? The tiatnium ring was one of the cheaper rings. I also think about titanium golf club heads.

I'lll look for a ink abou the hardness of titanium soon and I'll post it. Hopefully someone here who knows about metals will chime in here and end this debate once and for all.

Randy

Here's a link I found regarding machining titanium. It has a table with the hardness of titanium related to other metals.

[www.supraalloys.com]

Hope this helps,

Randy

All you want to know about titanium that I could find on the internet. Kind of surprising!! [www.key-to-metals.com]

Hardness. Titanium is a much harder metal than aluminum and approaches the high hardness possessed by some of the heat-treated alloy steels. Iodide purity titanium has a hardness of 90 VHN (Vickers), unalloyed commercial titanium has a hardness of about 160 VHN and when alloyed and heat-treated, titanium can attain hardnesses in the range of 250 to 500 VHN. A typical commercial alloy of 130,000 psi yield strength might be expected to have a hardness of about 320 VHN or 34 Rockwell C



Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

The Titanium used in the REC guides is an alloy, a memory metal. You heat it to about 800 deg. if I remember right and shape it. When it cools it holds that shape. Spring steel is another memory metal. Been a while since I messed with metal hardness, but I seem to remember that this guide material is in the upper ranges of what you'd expect from a stainless steel.

Sounds like a sales pitch to me. I somehow think bolt cutters would get the ring off...

IF he is so sure about how hard the metal is, he should prove it with some bolt cutters. I somehow doubt he would, though...

Randy,
I've got a titanium ring (wasn't cheap, because of hand crafting and not because of the material). I've had two rings in my life before this and broke both of them and that's why I wanted something else than gold or silver alloys and lighter than SS. It seems that jewellers use metallurgically pure titanium, which is still pretty soft (compared to tool steels etc.). Titanium is workhardenable but with unalloyed stuff I don't think it is such a problem. I think you got screwed (pardon my french) and the jeweller wanted to sell you something more expensive or he/she just didn't know what he/she was talking about.

Recoil is NiTi, a memory alloy consisting of nickel and titanium. Totally different material than pure titanium or normal titanium alloys.

Cheers,
Sakari

I’ve had to have 2 rings cut off 1-gold and 1-of a harder composite material. In defense of the jeweler, the tool they have to work with won’t cut titanium. The second ring they could not cut off. Had to have it removed with a power tool ,with a metal cutting bit. Painful and hot is what I remember about it. Almost cost me a finger. The problem is when your finger is swelled around the ring, you can’t get to it with bolt cutters.

So in order to make the titanium ( FLEXIBLE ) it has to be softer ?? Buy mixing it with other metals. Meaning it is not solid Ti. Which is the opposite of being the hardness that it is said or noted for ?? Which means it can be ( grooved ) ????????
Has any one ran a file though these compared to a ring guide ?? Don't care about the weight thing. There is only so much weight that can be taken away. Performance .

So in order to make the titanium ( FLEXIBLE ) it has to be softer ?? Buy mixing it with other metals. Meaning it is not solid Ti. Which is the opposite of being the hardness that it is said or noted for ?? Which means it can be ( grooved ) ????????
Has any one ran a file though these compared to a ring guide ?? Don't care about the weight thing. There is only so much weight that can be taken away. Performance .
How are they rated on a hardness scale to the rings out .

I personally think it is a great product, and others do too. Correct me if I am wrong, but Loomis is using these on their line. I still use Loomis as a benchmark of quality, I can list others companies as well. To get on here and degrade a sponsers product, well that doesn't shine to well...I am purchasing a set, a long with a 50mg...I care about weight and performance.

Bill,

Only the frames are made of titanium, not the rings. Titanium is used for it's lightness and corrosion resistance not particulary it's strength. Even in Amtaks ads for the Titans (great guide) they never say that it is any stronger than anything else, only lighter and corrosion resistant. The nannolite ring is just a trade arked name for what is probably a lihgt hard aluminum oxide material

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I know that about the Titans. Some one said the recoils are solid titanium, but it can't be since it's so soft.
i am sure people have gotten great service from them and they are great.

It might be best to attempt to really find out some technical information about the alloying properties of the rod components that we all purchase. I know of no component manufacturer or vendor who has specifically identified what they are using for what. Titanium is a very complex metal that can be combined with a lot of things to develop specific properties. Some of this is pretty heady metallurgical stuff but might prove to be interesting to some. It really would be nice to know what alloy they were talking about. Just like most other metals titanium does have some downsides in certain applications.

From technical publication on titanum metal properties:

Commercially Pure Alloys: There are five grades of what is known as commercially pure or unalloyed titanium, ASTM Grades 1 through 4, and 7. Each grade has a different amount of impurity content, with Grade 1 being the most pure. Tensile strengths vary from 172 MPa for Grade 1 to 483 MPa for Grade 4.

Alpha Alloys: Titanium alpha alloys are alloys that typically contain aluminum and tin, though they can also contain molybdenum, zirconium, nitrogen, vanadium, columbium, tantalum, and silicon. Alpha alloys do not generally respond to heat treatment, but they are weldable and are commonly used for cryogenic applications, airplane parts, and chemical processing equipment.

Alpha-Beta Alloys: Alpha-beta alloys can be strengthened by heat treatment and aging, and therefore can undergo manufacturing while the material is still ductile, then undergo heat treatment to strengthen the material, which is a big advantage. The alloys are used in aircraft and aircraft turbine parts, chemical processing equipment, marine hardware, and prosthetic devices.

Beta Alloys: The smallest group of titanium alloys, beta alloys have good hardenability, good cold formability when they are solution-treated, and high strength when they are aged. Beta alloys are slightly more dense than other titanium alloys, having densities ranging from 4840 to 5060 kg/m3. They are the least creep resistant alloys, they are weldable, and can have yield strengths up to 1345 MPa. They are used for heavier duty purposes on aircraft.








Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2006 09:24PM by Bill Stevens.

With all this discussion about the hardness of the REC recoil titanium alloy
I decided to conduct a little test with a file. The results are posted on the photo
section.

[www.rodbuilding.org]


I am still a fan of the REC recoil guides but the test was an eye opener to say the least.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Thanks Raymond