Just finished sanding down my wavy butt wrap. (Using a sanding block...what a great idea!)

Can I clean it with an alcohol prep pad before I but the new coat of Flex Coat on it? Won't screw up the next coat will it?

Keith

Never use a solvent wipe as the last step before finishing or coating anything.

Clean first, then scour/abrade, then apply finish, adhesive, paint, etc.

If you're worried about any minute sanding dust, just blow it off or dust it off with a soft brush.

.....

That is what I use... never had trouble????

Tom Kirkman said: "Never use a solvent wipe as the last step before finishing or coating anything."

Cliff Hall asks: "What problems may arise from using a solvent wipe as the last step (after sanding, etc) prior to the application of a finish or coating? ... Thanks, Tom, in advance. -Cliff Hall+++

Cliff,this is the prime time to introduce contaminants using a solvent.If the finish was just sanded or scuffed the resulting exposed surface is as pure and clean as it gets.Alcohol may be absorbed into the finish and decide to release after the next coat is appied.A blow or brush clean is all that I do (as per Tom).Never had a problem.Just make sure all the particles are removed.In my opinion the solvent softens the finish and the sanding particals and makes them stick to the surface making them harder to get rid of.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

Wiping with a solvent prior to applying finish or adhesive can itself ruin the surface you've just carefully prepared. It can smear contaminants around on that surface or leave other residue behind. Stronger solvents can reform the surface and ruin your water-break-free condition.



..............

Thanks, Fred - ... Aah, ... Now you're jogging my memory. I think I first read this in Ralph O'Quinn's RMM / Library Articles on Surface Prep & Re-finishing **.

[09:15AM EDIT: - Oh, Tom - I didn't see you there. I was re-Posting myself while you were Replying. Thanks, Tom. -Cliff+++]

It sounds like, after the sanding, successfully removing the rod coating / resin particles and abrasive grit, in order to provide the best adhesion for the new coating & a smooth finish, while being METICULOUSLY careful NOT to introduce any (new) contaminants is the CRITICAL issue at this stage in the (re-)finishing process.

Avoiding the introduction of solvent contaminants, wiper fibers, and the infiltration of hand grime & finger oils INTO the rod fibers, where adhesion with the new coating could become compromised, is the real concern here. (And, IMO, less so how that goal is achieved.) There's more than one systematic technique to avoid that contamination, IMO. (Gloves help, in either case, for an old chem lab worker bee like me). But clearly, this "dry, brush-off only" technique is probably the simplest. ... (Old habits die hard!) ...

The universal advice and broad-spectrum warning is duly noted.
("I sees de light, ...!") ... Thank you, Gentlemen. -Cliff Hall+++

** (1) LIBRARY: REFINISHING ROD BLANKS by Ralph O'Quinn. RMM-2(3).
Originally appeared in RodMaker Magazine, Volume 2, Issue # 3.
[www.rodbuilding.org]
** (2) LIBRARY: SURFACE PREPARATION by Ralph O'Quinn. RMM-5(2).
Originally appeared in RodMaker Magazine, Volume 5, Issue # 2.
[www.rodbuilding.org]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2006 09:21AM by Cliff Hall.

To make sure there are no problems fold a paper towel, stick it on your tong, just to get it damp, clean, then dry " well "

Keith,
I would agree with the others but for a little different reason. If you use denatured alcohol you are not using pure alcohol. Pure alcohol, either methyl or ethyl, will not leave any residue behind that might give you a contamination problem. But the denatured alcohol that you buy in the hardware store has a several other things in it. It is not pure alcohol.
If after you have sanded you still feel that it is necessary to clean the surface why not use the universal solvent, clean water. After it drys there will be no residue left behind.

Dust it off with a soft brush - that's really all you need to do.

...........

Emory,

Are you kidding here. Clean water. What we drink over here has passed through the human sytem at least three times. It is also loaded with Flouride for our kids teeth. Maybe distilled water might be ok. Did nobody get problems with static making it difficult to blow or brush the dust off ? I have it drove me nuts.

Like I have always said -- ask 10 people the same question - get 10 different answers !! What ever works for ya

Can you apply finish with a set of tong's instead of a spatula?

Billy,

How about coal tongs. Now I can send you an addresss of a vendor if you like.

Bill, that's fine but what about the poor Sop who asked the origional question. How's he/she to know who the @#$%& is even close to the mark. That has always been one of my concerns with this forum and it is by far and away the very best forum of it's type.. After time you get to know who is on the money and who is in cloud cuckoo land. There is no way Tom Kirkman can vet all replies for way off the mark replies to the posts. If I followed some of the solutions in the posts regarding finishing problems right now I would be equipped with the latest flame throwers , ciggie lighters and huge air moving devices. Just how does a newbie sort out who is actually talking sense or no. We really all have a responsibility to ensure that we are as right as we can be when offering help and advice. I do take your point though that sometimes there can be different approaches that are all technically correct, but I suspect that these instances are very few in practice. Rod building is not desperataly complex. but some aspects have to follow science and engineering principles then there can be no debate as to whats right and wrong. There's only one right. Heh I am not picking a fight here just voicing a view. Just kicking away the soap box now.

Try a search Don't beleve any one. If you want Tom as fare as I know beleves in ceramic rings
Use Tom's name all dates

As I pointed out in a recent column in RodMaker, internet forums are not policed by folks who make sure all the information provided is valid or even safe. So those who rely on them for their information have to use some wisdom in deciding what sounds feasible or where a consensus lies. even then, There's no guarantee.

In this particular instance, I will mention that the water-break-free proceedure is not something I just cooked up. It is used by aerospace companies who have to depend on the bonds and coatings they make on aircraft that carry human lives aboard. It is recognized by most epoxy and finishing forumlators and manufacturers as the correct way to do things. And, those same folks advise never to use a solvent as the last step before applying adhesive, finish, paint, etc.

.............

I've had excellent results doing this the way Tom K. says. Ralph

If at first you don't succeed, go fishing, then try, try again.

There is an unwarrented attention being aimed at removing the sanding dust after preparing a surface for bonding or coating. The exact same data which Tom speaks of (above) also shows us that this sanding dust is NOT a contaminant. You could do absolutely nothing -- just leave it there, ignore it, and proceed as usual with your next step in the bonding process. The sanding dust merely becomes a filler in the bond line. If your next step is to apply a coating which you want to be clear, it is merely prudent to brush off the surface with a clean brush prior to coating ---however NEVER use a solvent or damp rag to remove the sanding dust. Everyone should keep in mind that this SANDING DUST IS NOT A CONTAMINANT, especially if it is the result of using Scotchbrite for abrading.
Ralph

Mike Oliver wrote: "How's he / she [the less experienced rod-builder] to know who the @#$%& is even close to the mark. That has always been one of my concerns with this forum and it is by far and away the very best forum of it's type. After a time, you get to know who is on the money and who is in cloud cuckoo land. ... We really all have a responsibility to ensure that we are as right as we can be when offering help and advice."

And Mike Oliver wrote: If I followed some of the solutions in the posts regarding finishing problems right now I would be equipped with the latest flame throwers, ciggie lighters and huge air moving devices.

Mike Oliver - Thanks, buddy - I haven't laughed this hard all week. Between the cuckoo-land and the flame-throwers, I don't think I can stop laughing. I still remember how dangerous flaming your epoxy sounded to me the first time I read that on the Forum. Sounds like an episode of "Extreme Rod-Building" on OLN, where the expert guest flips the shield down on his welder's helmet and and the host says, "These men are professionals - Don't try this at home."

Thanks, Mike, for that reality check.

And Thanks to Tom Kirkman & Ralph O'Quinn for the deeper explanations behind the superficial advice. -Cliff Hall+++

Love that flame thrower and welding helmet thing.