I recently bought a gator glass blank and when i recevied it.It is not finished reading the catalog a little better.It says it is a unfinished blank.Now being new to rod building is there a way to sand down the blank to get all those grooves out of it?The reason i bought this blank it is pretty cheap and it is a give away rod.Do you think the grooves will effect the wrapping?And do i use flex coat to go over the whole blank or not.

Now i do rod repair and rod building for a little extra fishing money.Because Iam disabled and it really gets boring setting here.I have not ben taught anything by anyone just seen pictures and started.Then got hooked.Now is the time i wish i was taught by some body so i could go directly to them.But out of the stuff on here i learned alot of stuff.But now is the time i really need your help.Also it has a .977 butt section is there any cork that big to ream out to fit.I guess what i am asking is there any big round cork to ream out with out having thin walls left.And is there a bigger reel seat casting that is.All i have been able to find is size 18 mm and need a bigger.

Please help

Sorry if i sound so dumb but iam new.

Angler's Workshop has a large diameter cork grip the STBG8 if I remember right. 1.3 vs 1.1 " dia. 11 inches long, about 12.5 with the butt cap. Have put it on other glass blanks. Get with them, tell them what style grip you need and the blank diameter at 12 inches up from the butt and they will send you a handle/reelseat kit.

Ken - If your Rod Blank's Butt OD is 0.977" you will probably need a Reel Seat that is at least 22MM-ID. A 24-MM-ID is a much more likely bet, depending on where you place the reel seat. You can get a sense for the proper size Reel Seat by measuring the Rod Blank's OD with a caliper. Or you can use a strip of paper to measure the circumference (C) at the place where you would like to position the reel seat. OD = C / 3.14. Or you can use a formula to estimate the rod taper and the rod OD at that distance from the butt cap, using the Butt-OD and Tip-OD, if known.
-Cliff Hall+++, Gainesville, FL-USA

See this other Thread if you are interested in a FORMULA for a taper-OD calculation.
Re: Conventional surf rod help ... Cliff Hall ... 04/04/06 ... 08:40AM
[www.rodbuilding.org]
Another method for estimation of Blank OD is the TAPER Reduction Calculation.
ROD BLANK OD = (BUTT OD) – [ (RSP / LOA) x [(BUTT OD) – (TIP OD)] ]
RSP = Reel Seat Position
RSP = Distance from the Butt-end to the near edge of the reel seat barrel.
LOA = Length Over-All for the Rod-Blank, from Butt to Tip.

Example: Butt OD = 1.000". Tip OD = 0.200". LOA = 100". RSP = 20"
ROD BLANK OD = (BUTT OD) – [ (RSP / LOA) x [(BUTT OD) – (TIP OD)] ]
Rod Blank OD at 20" = 1.000 - [ (20 / 100) x [1.000 - 0.200] ]
Rod Blank OD at 20" = 1.000 - [ (0.200) x [ 0.800] ]
Rod Blank OD at 20" = 1.000 - [ 0.160 ] = 0.840"
Rod Blank OD at 20" = 0.840"
Rod Blank OD at 20" = 0.840 x 25.4 mm / inch = 21.3 mm
So, for our example, it would take a 22mm ID or larger Reel Seat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2006 03:37AM by Cliff Hall.

Read these articles before re-surfacing a rod blank:

(1) LIBRARY: REFINISHING ROD BLANKS by Ralph O'Quinn. RMM-2(3).
Originally appeared in RodMaker Magazine, Volume 2, Issue # 3.
[www.rodbuilding.org]

(2) LIBRARY: SURFACE PREPARATION by Ralph O'Quinn. RMM-5(2).
Originally appeared in RodMaker Magazine, Volume 5, Issue # 2.
[www.rodbuilding.org]

As you read them, keep these things in mind: Thread Finish, usually makes a poor sealer for a rod blank. You'll want a solvent-based finish like PermaGloss or a poly-urethane varnish. For a fiberglass rod, you can sand it, but read these articles so you don't reach a point of no return for exposing the raw cloth under the outer ridges, which were probably caused by a cellophane wrapper.

Good Luck, -Cliff Hall+++

Kenneth,

This may come across as a bit brutal and it's not meant to be. Having read your post I have to ask myself if you are entering the world of rod repair and building for paying customers well before you are qualified to do the work. Your post suggests that you need to do a lot of reading, learning and practical practicing before going down this path. How would you feel about say paying a surgeon good money to operate on you if he was not qualifide to do that type of work. Your questions are so basic and if you are offering to do paid work then really you should know the answers to them already.

Ok the unfinished blank is a blank that has not been factory ground and varnished. The spirals you see are thoses left by an impervious clear tape which is wrapped aroung the raw uncooked blank after the blank is rolled. When the blank is cured in a special oven some resin flows to the underside of this tape, When the tape is removed you get this spiral look. The actual finish can be quite coarse or smooth depending on how the tape was wrapp[ed and the quality of the blank.

I work often on unground blankls. I specify them that way as an unground blank is likely to be that bit stronger and the finish it has is very tough. They can be more dificult to wrap mainly when you are trying to start off the wrap as the thread wants to follow the spiral. Now a way around this is to put a turn of masking tape onto the blank at the start of you wrap. Butt your thread up to the tape and you will get a 90 degree start to the long axisof the blank. Mostly after that all will be ok. Except you may find it more difficult to pull your pull thorugh when finishing off a warp so make your number of turns over the pull through slight,y less. Or position the pull through close to the tunnel which makes pulling it through easy and then work the thread around the blank before cutting off.

Can you get rid of these groves as you call them. Well yes you could try fine wet and dry paper but this is not a job for a begginnner and is frought with potential problems. One is the health aspect of very fine epoxy and carbon dust. Technically you may over do it and start to cut actual fibres which will affect the rod in a number of ways. You ony have to reduce the diameter of a rod by a little to change it's action a lot. My advice is don't mess with the blank If you want a nice smooth blank then you have to pay for it.

In answer to your question do I use flex coat to finish the entire blank then no you don't. You need to use finish like Perma Gloss or a urethane varnish. But none of these two finishes will stick well to an unground blank. The blank should already have a gloss like finish. So leave it as it is.

You can buy corks big enough to fit your blank. Yes the walls may be thin but that does not matter providing the corks are reamed out to fit the blanks taper exactally. There are limits to how thin but common sense has to come into play here.

Kenneth you can find reel seats from Fuji up to a size 32. Measure the diameter of your blank where you want to mount the seat and order the next size up. You want a small space between the seat and the blank so you can bush it. You don't want to set up a sheer edge.

Ok I think I am about done. The very best thing you can do to expand your knowledge is to get some rod building books and DVD's. Study them and practice the techniques you read about. There is no short cut not even this Forum cannot provide that for you or me or anyone else .

All the very best

Mike Oliver

Ken, just coat the whole blank with flex coat and then wrap. I've seen this done by a good rod builder and you can't even tell when the blank is finished that it was rough in the first place. I don't know why flex coat wouldn't be a good finish for a blank.....I've coated whole blanks before and it holds up very well.

Two part epoxies are not really designed for coating blanks. They don't adhere extremely well and they are quite heavy. Permagloss, a urethane, is a much better choice for a blank coating. It's thinner and lighter than any epoxy but also much, much tougher and abrasion resistant than epoxy. It also "wets" the surface better so it adhere's very well.

..........

Tom, I agree that permagloss is superior for coating a blank, but it would take many, many coats to fill in an unfinished blank, if it's even possible.

That was kinda brutal.But as far as paying customers go it is my friends and i charge them 4.00 to replace a broken guide.Then the money goes into my fishing spot.I did not know i was going to get beatup on here.
All i asked was a few questions.Yes i know the grooves in the blank is from them rolling the blank and baking it.Iam just not a good typer and is trying to take shortcuts.And as far as reading books go.My local library Dont carry, or can not get books on rod building i have been down there a bunch of times they tell me no.And i am disabled and what the state of California gives me it is hard to find books that cheap.And survive all at the same time.
NOW IF YOU GUYS DONT WANT ME TO POST ON HERE ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS TELL ME.
Now the rod is a giveaway to a person that helped me out the other day.I uasually build my own rods and not for anybody else.And the catalogs i get dont have the fuji reel seats that big.So i guess i will call them

Kenny

Bruce,

I completely disaggree. There is nothing to "fill" in an unsanded blank. Your not
refering to the areas inbetween the ridges are you?

Using epoxy thread finish to coat the entire blank sanded or unsanded is folly.
I have seen the results first hand and although first impressions can look good
after time it's not a pretty site at all.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Kenneth,

By all means post anytime you like. The purpose of this forum it to promote
rodbuilding by sharing ideas in a respectful friendly environment. Things can
get a bit heated at time though.
I for one don't think you got beat up here but I'm sorry if you think you did and
I'm sure that was not Mike's intent.

Good luck with the rod.


BTW, what part of CA are you from? Mark & Collen Griffin @ @#$%& have
a wide variety of components to choose from and they are located in San Demas,
near L.A.. I am in Sacramento.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I was not saying it to be rude it is just a figure a speech.May be the wrong one i guess.I live near Modesto Ca.South of you about 1hour and half away.Thanks guys for everything


Kenny

Cool!
I get down that way from time to time. I tried to email you but your email
address is hidden. You can change that in "my controll panel" or email
me at RCAdams1957@msn.com

I'm also trying to organize a get together of rodbuilders from the Sacramento,
Stockton, and Bay areas. I was originaly looking at the beginning of April but
as that is already here it will have to be near the end of the month. The location
looks like lake Berryessa or Hennisee
Would you be interested in attending? If so, I could pick you up!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Hey raymond i changed the profile.You can email me now.My addy is lipripper@sbcglobal.net
That sounds cool but. When do think you going to try and get this together.

Bruce,

You would not "fill in" an unsanded blank. You'd either leave it alone, or sand it smooth and then coat it. Those ridges are the remainder of the resin left between the cellophane wraps during the manufacturing process. Normally they'd be removed by the manufacturer and only then is the blank painted or coated.

A high build epoxy is only going to add weight and in the long run, it is nowhere near as tough nor as well adhered as Permagloss is going to be.

............

Ray, after time, not much "is" a pretty sight (lol). While you guys were posting I just finished coating (you guessed it) a whole blank! Turned out beautiful! I learned about this from a rod builder that orders his blanks "unfinished" to save a few bucks. I've seen some of his rods come back into the shop after many years of use, and they still look good to me.

Hi Bruce,
I guess we can agree to disagree. Thanks for the reply and I wish
you the best.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Bruce,

I can't understand the need to try and level an unground blank with finish. You don't need to. Also it's a bit like trying to put another coat of high build on well after the first has cured. I have found that nothing much sticks to it well. Rejoice in the spiral finish. It is honest. I can't undrsatnd why the builder you mentioned would want tro save a few dollars on an unground blank and then invest very expensive time trying to rid the blank of the spirals. But as Ray says we all have our own ways of doing stuff. Ok I did try and finish a blank like this once or twice with a brushing grade expoxy finish designed to be applied like a paint . It only took two thinish coats to smooth the blank. You still see the spirals of course.
Viva La differences

Mike O

AKS OLy

Hello Kenneth.

Thanks for responding to my brutal post. Ok I re-read it and it was a tad over the top. I was just trying to help you from maybe extending your self before you was ready. That would not have helped you at all.
But I did go on to try and aswer your questions as fully as I could. Hopefully this will show that I wanted to help you. The other Guys also have made comprehensive replies so I do hope you can see you are very much wanted here as I believe every rod builder is.. It was not my intention that you should feel that way. But when I re- read my post I may have thought excactally the same as you. So please accept my opologies.

I find it frustrating that your local library cannot get you the books you need. One would have thought they had a duty to their members to get you the requested books. Maybe it's different in The USA than the UK.. Which books are you looking for?

Hopefully Kenneth you got the information you need to go forward with your rod now. If not then please ask again.

Regards

Mike

Thanks mike and yes it was helpful.Sorry if i sounded rude it was juct a figure of speech.Thanks.

Kenny