i am planning on building an 8 and a 10 wt fly rod that are both 9 ft. in length. i was interested in substituting snake guides for ceramic guides. i was planning my first three guides sizes to be 20,16,12. After that i am not sure what sizes to use. i was thinking of 3 8's and 3 6's working towards the tip. any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks

9-foot (8-Wt or 10-Wt) FLY Rod: 20, 16, 12, 3(8mm), 3(6mm) + TT
JJ - Sounds like you are on the right track to me.
Single-foots after the stripper (20mm) should work well.

Keep in mind the size of your knots and loop connections, and the actual ID of the open ring. Size all guides and the tip-top ring to pass your knots easily.

You can look up guide ring ID at:
www.FishSticks4U.com
-Cliff Hall+++

thanks cliff. would it be a bad idea to use double footed guides that match the stripper?

For the 20-16-12mm, any or all can be double-foots.
After the stripper (20mm), all the guides can be single foots.
IMO, any 10-8-6mm can be single foots on a fly rod.

If you really need the ruggedness of double-foots, and they don't seem too heavy on your rod, you could, of course, use double foots all the way out. ...

BUT, double-foot guides will add extra weight from thread + epoxy (thread finish = TF). If you use 2 coats of a thin TF like PermaGloss, you'll save a lot of weight compared to 2 coats (or even one coat) of a high-build formulation of thread finish.

Depending on how much casting you'll need to do, you may want to save as much weight as practical to reduce your casting fatigue. The less mass you add to the rod blank from (guides + thread + TF), the less weight your cast will have to propel. The more efficient your rod will be. The more energy will hurl your line. The faster the rod will recover and damp from a cast. And the higher your resonance frequency will be, and the finer your rod's "sensitivity." ...

But if you need really heavy-duty single foot guides,
consider the Fuji LBSG (SIC) or BLBLG (HardLoy).
These are Tri-Leg SINGLE-FOOTS.

Hopefully, I did not mis-understand your question. -Cliff Hall+++

James,

First time I am going to disagree with Cliff here. Ok main are of disagreement is the size of the last running guides. A size 6 is way too small when trying to work out even an eight weight line. The bore on these guides is tiny. Even when onto the running line they are way too small. You may want to come down in size on your stripper guide too. Have a look at a size 16 especially in say a fuji T-SVSG or std SVSG. Twenty is pretty big for an eight weight. You don't really need to go for three double leg guides. I know that many famous named makers do but are they absolutaly necassary? Is it fashion or looks. Two may be better, certainly lighter and less costly.

OK here is my suggestion and as always not everyone will agree with me. I use these on my own rods.

8wt

16, 12 Double leg Fuji SVSG type frame or Fuji NSG pattern Then 10 8,8,8.8.8 8 and appropiate size 8 tip top. The single leg are Fuji SG type. This is for an XI2 blank. Faster blanks may require another size 8.

10wt

Same but could opt for size 20 stripper and 16 double leg rest the same. I am not convinced that the larger stripper guide helps overlymuch with distance so if you don't need it don't fit it..

Notes

For the 8 wt if the blank is very slim I would consider going down to a size 7 but no smaller.

Final analysis it's up to you but that's my take.

Regards
Mike Oliver

If you are intending to use these rods in salt water, ceramic doesn't wear like metal and therefore doesn't corrode. I use American Tackle's Titan guides a lot. They have titanium bases (very light and corrosion-proof) and have thin ceramic rings. The running guides for those rods should be a size 7 (for Titan guides) in my opinion. Remember, snake guides are sized very differently than ceramics. A size 5 ceramic is tiny, a size 4 snake is quite large. The above recommendations are talking about ceramic sizes; a size 8 snake guide (if one exists) would be enormous, way too big for a running guide (unless you're casting rope).

Jim

JAMES, YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK, . BATSON OFFERS TWO GUIDE SETS THAT ALLOW A BETTER TRANSITION OF SIZES. . BUDLG 20,16,12, FOLLOWED BY BFLG [SINGLE FOOT 10, 8.8, AND THREE 7'S ON YOUR 10 WGT. I THINK THIS WILL WORK ON YOUR 8 WGT AS WELL, PERHAPS STARTING WITH 16,12,10, 10 SIGLE FOOT THEN A GROUP OF 8'S AND 7'S MAYBE A COUPLE OF 6'S . THEY HAVE A COOL SET OF BLACK FRAME/BLUERINGS BUDUG,BFUG. BY THE WAY, THEIR SITE HAS SOME NEW PRODUCT, THERE IS A NEW 4PC 10WGT AVAIL. i'M NOT A FLY RODDER BUT I HAVE BUILT QUITE A FEW. THE LAST FLY ROD I BUILT WAS FOR RETIRED GENERAL H. NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF. HIS FATHER STARTED THE STATE POLICE OF NEW JERSEY, AND IT WAS PRESENTED TO HIM AT THE 50TH ANNIVERSERY OF THE STATE POLICE. . HE STATED THAT HE "WOULD CATCH ALL THE CRIMINAL FISH WITH THIS ROD,". IT WAS A 3 WEIGHT , THAT HE USES WHILE VACATIONING IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAINS. GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR ROD. KEVIN BOGAN

I don't think that there would be any reason (that I know of-could be wrong)to vary the guide sizes after the first 2 or 3. Get down to whatever running size you want (8,7,6, etc) and go with them. There is no advantage in gradually decreasing the size.

Mike

Mike,
I don't think you are wrong. After the first two, Double legged guides why not go straight into the smallest running guide you want to select. I mostly do it as I like the graduated look it gives and some customers are just not ready to be that radical. Saves a tad of weight to.

Still trying to convince that snakes are pre-historic bits of twisted wire. Slowly slowy when it comes to change with fly rods. LOL

Mike

Still confused about what Mr. Jindal intends to use for running guides -- see Mr. Benenson's post. A snake guide, whether single or double foot, in size 8 would have a diameter about that or a U.S. quarter; way too big. Mr. Jindal, I suggest you tell us the manufacturer and model number of the guides you are thinking of to clear up any communicaitons problem.

James, I am building an 8 wt right now and had the same questions as you . My blank is a Sage Xi2, so I called Sage, and the following is what they use. They start with a 20 then down to 12, both H & H "low rider" ( a little closer to the blank ) strippers, then for snakes they go one five, one four. five three's. and an extra large tip. So after taking my calipers to a local shop the sells theXi2, I measured the inside diameter of the snakes to convert to the appropriate ring size for my Titan single foots - A 20, a 16,and a 12 stripper, (Going from a 20 directly to a 12 seemed too much to me), one 10 and six 8's. The tip is also an 8.
As far as the 10 wt rod, here is what Sage does on the Xi2 - 20, 12, strippers then a 5 and then six fours with an xl tip. Hope this helps

Jerry,

If you re-read the post by Mr Jindal I think that he is indeed looking to fit Creamic single leg guides. I think that there is almost no risk in him using a single leg ceramic based on snake guide sizing for as you have pointed out it would be way over the top. All of the posts above are in fact suggesting single leg guides. We just disagree with some of the running guide sizes. I like the size 8 as my final size running guide even on the 8wt as the Fisher may want to upline to a 9wt line and I think that the size 8 will be better. Others disagree but that's ok There is mostly some room in this craft to have differnces but not have a major bad effect on the final rod build. Viva la differnces it makes for interesting debate, well sometimes.

Mike O.