I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for this situation. I bought a rainshadow hs9000 and it was spec'd with a # 5 tip so I ordered a # 5 tip top. well, now I have them but the blank top actually measures out as a 4 so my tip top fits like socks on a chicken! Should I just hope to get it on even with the epoxy or is there a way to shim it or do I just need to wait and order the correct size? Any input is greatly appreciated! Thanks, Fishmanmike

Ah! the old tip top don't fit routine. LOL. I have the blank supplier send me a tip top of the right prefitted size if I'm using guides I usually don't use much. I carry a decent selection of my usual guides, so I don't have this happen anymore. I started my collection by ordering one size up and down from the stated size, but it doesn't look like that would have helped you here.

(1): You can re-order or exchange for a new tip-top.
(2): You can use some Regular Nylon Thread as a shim.
(3): You can consider if Trimming back the rod tip to the correct diameter (OD) to match the tube's ID is an option.

(2): To wrap a Thread Shim: First determine the Thread Size that is closest to what you want to use to take up most, but not all, of the space in the gap.

If your measurements are correct for the rod OD (4.0 - 64ths) and the tube ID (5.0 - 64ths), you are off from the correct tube size by 1.0 - 64ths inch.

1.0 - 64ths inch error in the tube size gives you an error of ONE-HALF that amount on each side of the rod tip's OD.

So the Thread diameter should be less than ONE-HALF of 1.0 - 64ths inch.
That equals a Thread diameter of 0.50 - 64ths OR LESS.

Thread diameters are expressed not in 64ths inch,
but in decimal expression of MILLIMETERS.
So that conversion is [ (0.50 - 64ths) / 64] x (25.400 MM / inch) = 0.198 MM

So the Thread you should use must have a Thread OD less than 0.198 MM

FOR GUDEBROD REGULAR NYLON THREAD:
SIZE A = 0.175 MM = 6 STRANDS per MM
SIZE D = 0.260 MM = 4 STRANDS per MM
SIZE E = 0.330 MM = 3 STRANDS per MM

USE ONE-LAYER of GUDEBROD REGULAR NYLON THREAD - SIZE A as an UNDER-WRAP SHIM for your TIP-TOP TUBE.
TEST FIT the tip-tube over the thread-wrap BEFORE you glue it up.
If this is too tight a fit using Size A Thread, and you do not have some Size 00 (2/0) Silk or Regular Thread ( ~ 0.12 MM), then RE-ORDER a new tube size.
ABSOLUTELY DO NOT-NOT-NOT USE Color Preserver (CP).
Let the glue soak right into the Thread and bind to the rod blank.

Do this, and you'll be fine. Meanwhile, you will have learned, IMO, one of the most useful skills in tip-top mounting. It puts you back in control of those surprise occasions when the tube is too much larger than the rod tip, and when fit is not too critical. ... Build a stock of commonly used tip-top styles in various sizes to reduce the need to have to resort to this. And do a nice little thread wrap IN FRONT of the tube's mouth to reduce the step-down from the TUBE-OD to the ROD-OD.

(3): Also, ALTERNATELY, you can consider if cutting back the rod tip, up to ~ one inch, will put the new blank OD in the right size for a 5.0-64ths tube ID. Removing a length greater than that may cause too much of a change in the rod's action for some tastes, so think about that before you amputate. And DEFINITELY USE reliable calipers to confirm the rod blank OD before any such surgery.

In this case, Plan-2 (shimming with Size A or 2/0 thread) is the most convenient.

Plan-1 (re-ordering a new tube size) is the safest, but least convenient.

And Plan-3 may be too risky for such a light power rod in the first place. You may have to cut back the rod tip too much, and that could affect the taper-action too much. Anything more than 1.0 inch might raise the lower-end of your line rating by as much as 1 / 16th of an ounce, depending on the length of the rod in question. If you are talking about a 5 foot extra-fast UL rod, 1.0 inch may be way too much. If it's a 10' salmon noodle, you will never notice.

IMO, ... -Cliff Hall+++, Gainesville, FL-USA*****

P.S. -
Salmon / Steelhead Blanks (IST/ISA/SH/HS/DR)
[www.fishsticks4u.com]

RS-RX7 GRAPHITE – HOT-SHOT SALMOM / STEELHEAD
HS9000 … Matte Clear … 7'6" … 1-pc …
8-17lb. … 1/4-1/2oz. … 0.450” … 4.5 / 64ths …
Xtr-Fast … Lite … 2.11oz. … $55.00 – Add

Okay, now that I look up the rod, cutting back the rod tip is not such a hot idea on this Hot-Shot rod, because it is an XTRA-FAST taper on a reasonably short rod. It’s your call, … I don’t have the rod in front of me, … –Cliff Hall+++.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2006 04:55PM by Cliff Hall.

Cliff, thanks very much for the detailed message. I'll probably dry fit the top on a thread shim and if i don't like it I guess I'll just order a new one. I usally order them fitted but I got this blank on sale and I wasn't sure at that time how i was going to build it. I just hate the wait caus I was ready to go to town on this rod today as the weather stinks for boating or fishing today! (central Oregon) Thanks again, fishmanmike

fishmanmike

If you think you will be using these brand of guides all the time, it may be better to order the one up and down, like Spencer said. This way you will build up a stash of tops.

Mike – It may seem like a show-stopper to not have the correct size tip-top tube, but you can still do almost everything else on the rod without the tip-top. Even if you don’t like the tube’s dry-fit over the thread shim, you can still use that 5.0-64ths tube tip-top as a stand-in tip-top for your permanent tube. Just use some masking tape to hold the tip-top in place. That will allow you to do any casting tests or static load distribution tests that you need to do. So, while it is a bit of a head-blower, you can still get things going on this rod project. About the only thing you can’t do is put the star on top of the Christmas tree. … yet. … Good luck, Mike. –Cliff Hall+++

Mike,

As usual Cliff comes up with the detailed good stuff. Ok just to fine tune a bitmore. IF your A size thread is too thick still all you have to do is say pull of about two feet of thread and take out one of the thread elements. In old style A there were four seperate elements twisted together in more recent times I notice that there are three. Ok so you remove one it is a bit tricky but very doable. Then just knot this two feet section back onto ypur thread spol and wrap the area neede under the tip top. Try the fit. You may have to take another section out. It's trial and error. Not rocket sceince stuff. Ok I start off at the bottom of the tip top and lay down a touching turns wrap of say 2mm then I open spiral wrap to the middle and make a touching turn wrap of 2mm then open spiral towards the tip top tip and finish with another 2mm touching turn wrap. This way some of the blank is open to the epoxy to make a better bond. Yopu will find that this process becomes more common as you get to bigger tip tops as the sizes are much bigger spaced. For example Fuji BPHT goes from a 3.5mm to a 4.00mm tube which often for me means doing what I have descibed above to get a proper fit between the tip top and the blank.


Cheeers

Mike Oliver

"Shred the thread" to fit the gap!
Great idea & techinique, Mike Oliver.
Synergy in motion, ... Thanks, -Cliff Hall+++

Hi Chris,

No worries. It can be tricky trying to split the thread into the seperate elements as it does tend to twist up. You kind of twiddle the thread to seperate then comb down the element you don't want. So I always use a longer length than I need. It can get very fragile to especially if you only need one element. But you don't need as much tension as a normal wrap. You can use size D and others of course. Simple but it works great. Me I can't stand not having a concentric fit between my blank and the tip top tube.

Regards

Mike Oliver