Tom's response to another post reminded me of what I think is an important business principle. For those that sell rods as a full or part-time venture and whose continued success is dependent upon a good reputation: how do you repsond when a customer requests something that is impractical, in poor taste, of very poor quality or just plain UGLY? Your business reputation is important and having someone carry around a piece of trashy fishing gear with your name on it or telling his friends that you built it for him will not gain you one additional piece of business and could drive away good potential business. My case in point is that, of those on this board with solid reputations as expert craftsmen in this field - you have NEVER seen a piece of their work that isn't first rate. This remains true in any field of business that you can think of; those with good reputations always turn out consistently good products and do not yield to the temptation of cheapening their product to turn a quick buck. If your name is associated with it, be certain that it's something that you are proud of and not afraid to stand behind.

The trick, as an old coworker used to say, is to "tell them no and leave them smiling." which is easier said than done. The trick is to leave the customer with a positive impression of the way you do business and leave open the option to come back. Don't tell them that their idea is dumb, just suggest something better. Demostrate to them that you know your subject without appearing condecending or overbearing and try to help them come up with a better approach. Another old adage of the sales business is "don't let them call your kid ugly" - you need to be able to defend your product from criticism. In order to do that you need a competitive product. You'll get enough unsolicited criticism that you don't need to invite more with an inferior product.

I'm done with op-ed writing now. It's Saturday morning and time to shampoo the carpet (no fishing today); it's a promise I made earlier in the week. As I said, reputations are important and I've got a responsibility to maintain mine as a good house husband. Besides, I may need this trump card for a trip to the river in the very near future.

Hard to say no when you need the money!!! But your point is valid and I do understand. I've started turning away some of the really oddball requests if I know the result the isn't going to be good. They say that the customer is always right but I have too many who think they know more about rod building than I do. I may not know it all, but if they knew more than me they'd be building their own.

if a job is worth doing then do it right or dont bother to do it at all.....if you were a mechanic and a customer said can you fit these second hand brakes what would you do???????? treat the customer with respect and stick to your principles... money may be needed badly but remember a bad job could mean no more money at all so the few dollers you earn on that rod well could you retire on it ????????

I agree with your post but the shoe happens to be on the other foot at present! I am approximately 1/2 way through with stripping wallpaper from three rooms and if I say No there will be no smile on the real bosses face.

Fsh No Mo!

ahaaaaa thats different you could learn to cook though gives you a head start ????

I know I don't know every thing about building but I still use my " gut " feeling when building. I take my time and check out many blanks and even take I think- too much time to set guides up. But then again my name is on it.
I have bought three blanks just to get what I feel is the right one. had one I kept waving in the air and every time I did it was just not right. So I painted another .
The bad thing is people look at say Bass pro or Wolly World and think they will have one custom built at the same price ??
I find it hard to find out - what they want - how it should perform - what they expect it to look like, - and what they expect to pay.

I'm with Bill, I just love it when someone come in looking for something "special", but they can't fathom that "special" deserves a special price. Price is soon forgotten, but quality never is.

I have to agree with Allen Forsdyke.

I would like to add this "all emcompassing" thought to the mix:

"There is no amount of bad business that will ever equate to good business."

I'll give you an example:

A client requests a particular build. They specify what they want. All top notch components, etc...But is taken back when the total comes and then they try to manipulate the cost of the build (ie my time and labor).

I haven't been building rods that long, but I know that what I construct uses sound principles of rod building and with a fit and finish that is top notch. This isn't boasting, these comments came from several respected rodbuilders that have had a chance to view my work. So my time and labor is a bit higher than those in my area that are just pumping out rods to get their name out there and brag about how many rods they've built. My guide wraps tend to be on the fancier side with multiple trim bands, accents, etc. I haven't built a plain-jane rod for a client yet and I attract a certain clientel because this.

I build all my rods with 110% intensity. The rod doesn't touch the clients hands until I am completely comfortable with it. I have joked on multiple occassions that some of the rods I've built look so good or feel so nice that I plan on keeping them for myself! LOL! Sometimes it is hard to part with them.

So what do you do with a customer that has only a certain amount to spend, but wants higher end blanks and components? I have made the decision, after a healthy dose of educating them on why they have chosen me to make their dream rod come true, if it comes down to a reduction in time and labor....I respectfully decline the rodbuild.

Yes, it hurts a little to see the possible profits walk away. Even if they are lower only slightly. But, I know in the end it is to the benefit of all involved. The customer will eventually find someone to build the rod they want and at the same time I have kept my integrity and reputation of quality craftsmanship intact.

It is similiar to what is expressed above. If the customer asks to have what you feel is an UGLY build or a build made on uneducated, unsound construction principles, then you have to educate them as best you can. If they still insist, keep in mind what your name is going on it and what the future business implications may end up as.

It is always tuff to turn away business regardless of the circumstances, but "bad business is bad business" in my honest opinion.

Domenic Federico
Infinity Rod Creations

Heck I had a rod all packed up and ready to ship out -- but because the clear on the butt wrap bothered me so much that I un - packed and sanded the clear and refinished it. - Then I liked it.
Sent one guy a rod I refinished the handle just to make it pretty ??!! he don't like it that much. So I told him I would redo it at my expense. he was nice and said he would use it and see if he likes it.
Put a little notation for myself to email him about a month and see ?? I will worry about that handle.

Hi Sam,
I agree whole heartly with your post. I had already called the lady and explained again the problems with the project. Now she is going to get me to build her two rods.......I gave her a good price.......Thanks

Big John
Rio Hondo, Texas
Blessed are those who can give without remembering and take without forgetting

Good work John !!

reputation and a superior product should be everyones goal in this business.if you try to make a living in rodbuilding referrals are everything. don't jepordise your integrith by building inferior products and shoddy craftsmanship.it reflects.thanks joe (jmho)

I would have to aggree with some points made here and disaggree with others.
While I would absolutely not compromise my time, workmanship, fit and finnish
and to some extent the price on any rod I build for a customer I also feel that if
a customer wants a specific blank or configuration or components who am I to
turn them away simply because I think they are making a bad choise?
I firmly beleive S.F. guides are better than D.F. guides for most applications and
that some blanks are trash compaired to others but If someone wants a rod built
with D.F. guides on a trash blank If I can't deswade them from thier choice I'll build
them what they want. That is why they call it a "custom" rod isn't it?
If that lady who John spoke about approched me about the same project and I was
unable to educate her to a better decision I would have built her what she wanted!
The art of good business is making a happy customer and making a proffit in return.
As far as an ugly or not so great performing rod being out there with my name on it
chasing a prospective customer away or giving me a bad rep. well, I'm not to concerned
about that. Most fisherman don't have a clue about what makes a rod good or bad.
All they know is what they like and if the person useing a rod built by me is happy
with it or not. My only concern is them not being happy as time goes by and they become
more educated then not remembering my suggestions and thinking I did them wrong.
Even when you do everything right you can't please everyone all the time.

Some fly rod builders won't build with snakes and some won't build with ceramics
and turn customers away who want what they won't use. Silly!

I am only a hobbiest not in business so maybe I would feel differently if I had to stake my
living on this. Who knows? Just my 2 cents right now.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Raymond and Shawn, you make some valid points. You're correct that it is in your best interest as a business person to keep the customer satisfied and it is often difficult to turn your back on a potential sale. I guess this is also a good time to mention that I wasn't speaking of the hobbyist who really enjoys building rods and who does a good job of it who gets asked if he will make a rod for his cousin's brother-in-law's nephews 14th birthday. I was really speaking of the rod maker who is serious and is attempting to establish or maintain a profitable operation either as a full or part-time venture.

There is no single successful business strategy. All types of businesses flourish using different approaches but very little of it happens by accident or by luck. Most business succeed by serving the needs of the market that they decide to focus on a penetrate. My fear for the business person who is too eager to make a sale or too agreeable to accept an inappropriate order is that the market will define who they are. If you build a cheap rod as a favor for one customer he will tell someone else who will also want one for the same low price. Those "favors" will haunt you. In other words, if you begin accepting orders that involve poor designs and/or inferior materials (and probably at a discounted price) the market will define you as a low cost builder of so-so quality rods. If that happens you are likely to have difficulty convincing anyone why they are not better off buying from BPS aside from the fact that you can personalize it for them. If there's a market for that and you can make a profit - fine, but I'll bet you will be hard pressed to do that. Even worse, if that becomes your reputaton you will need to work twice as hard to alter your image. Remember, if price was everything, Big Lots would be bigger than Walmart; Cadillac didn't become a legendary builder of luxury cars my making Yugos. There is a market for Yugos and Big Lots but they are low end and depend on volume.

I'm not saying turn your back on business but remember that you're the expert and you sometimes need to help your customer decide what they want and it is better if you keep asking questions and making suggestions, letting them tell you what they want. This isn't always easy as we all know;sometimes they really don't know what they want and you have to coach them through it. We've all had the lady who wanted a "special fishing rod" for her husband who fished but didn't know where or for what but wanted to get him something nice for his birthday. Sometimes you may need to change out certain components to cost out the project in order to makethe sale if it still means having a quality product.

In the end your long term interests are best served when you have a product that you are proud to put your name on and that you want your customer to show to friends and tell him where they got it.

I aggree Sam,
I already have had to deal with the price issue more then once. I was selling rods to friends
at work for the cost of blank and components and when they showed them off I got a few
requests and when I quoted the price they got mad! "That's not what so and so told me" they
said. Favors can bite you in the !@#$% for sure. I guess it really is a fine balancing act to run
a successful business when you make what you sell and take orders for "special" projects.
Giving the customer what they want is not as easy as one might think sometimes.
A good reputation in any business area is much easier earned than regained thats for sure!
Maybe I should re-think my words posted previously.

Thanks for a very good and thought provoking thread!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..