The guide set up I was recommended was 50,40,30,25,20,16 Fuji Hardloy BSVLG's and a 16 top. Seems big, conical and different from what I've seen. But what do I know.
The reel seat is already 18 inches from the butt and will be paired with a stradic 5000.
It's my first, but I'm stoked with the way the split cork grips came out, so I really want the rest to come out well for some long term use.

Thanks all!

Nice blank, give some thought to using the New Guide Concept as outlined on the online library page here. I think those guide sizes that were recommended to you are way oversized and you can do much, much better. In fact, that set up is positively medieval.

What size line will you be using?

............

Batson RainShadow SW-1087 RX-7 Graphite (Surf Rod)

SW1087 ... Matte Clear ... 8'10" ... 1-piece ...
15-25lb. ... 3/4-4oz. ... 0.740" ... 7.5 / 64ths ...
Mod-Fast ... Medium ... 7.15oz. ... $70 ... Add

Rainshadow Saltwater Blanks (SWS / SW)
[www.fishsticks4u.com]

Reel Spool Diameter (Stradic 5000): ____ mm

Overall Rod Length: _106_ inches

Distance from Butt Cap to Spool Face: __?16?__ inches
Distance from Spool Face to Butt Guide: __18__ inches
Distance from Butt Guide to Rod-Tip: __?72?__ inches

Line Guide Layout #01:
FUJI Hardloy BSVLG: 50, 40, 30, 25, 20, 16mm + 16mm ring Tip-Top.
Distance from the Rod Tip: [Butt] - 72", 55", 40", 27", 16", 7" - TT [Tip]
Spacing Intervals: [Reel to Butt Guide = 18"] - 17", 15", 13", 11", 9", 7" - [TIP]

Yes, Luis, this is a conical or "Cone of Flight" Sizing Method, using a Progressive Spacing Method. Guide layouts for ring size & spacing intervals like this were S.O.P. in the 1980's. One of my first re-builds of a 9'6" surf rod has exactly the same layout as cited above, using Fuji tri-leg guides (with the glow-nylon cushion).

Some rod-builders who never heard of RBO would still choose that layout for a 9' surf rod for their tastes. ... But that was 20 years ago. ... Luis, You will soon get Replies from other RBO Readers. ... I will let them speak for themselves. ...

Hasta luego, Luis, .. y, ... A Dios, ...
-Cliff Hall+++, Gainesville, FL-USA ... cmkmhall@ufl.edu



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2006 12:21AM by Cliff Hall.

I didn't mention earlier but I will be using 20# fireline for this rod to toss bombers, red fins, mag minnows, 1 oz. bucktails, etc...

You should definitely take a look at the New Guide Concept Primer on the online library page. It would work great with that type and size line.

...............

To LUIS MORALES: Now is a good time to pick a primary Vendor-Supplier for your mail-order purchases and a primary Brand-Manufacturer of your rod components. I suggest you consider FishSticks4U as your Vendor-Supplier and Batson as your Brand-manufacturer of choice. … And yes, I will explain why.

BATSON makes the RainShadow (RS) RX-Graphite Rod Blanks, and the ForeCast (FC) E-Glass Rod Blanks. The rod blank is the first and single most important component selection in a rod-building project. You have already seen for yourself the great quality & value these Batson rod blanks offer.

Well, the rest of the Batson products, the ForeCast Components line of products, offers an extensive selection of everything else you need to finish the rod project. ForeCast offers all kinds of line guides, reel seats, handles & grips in such an extensive array of sizes, that it takes 70 pages in the ForeCast Catalog to list them all.

But what is especially useful is that for each item, there is a full physical description. For Line Guides, that includes the Model #; the Guide Size; the Frame material / plating / color; the Ring material / plating / color; the Ring OD / ID; the Ring Height, and the Foot Length. The only thing missing is the Guide Weight. But most other brand’s Catalogs do not provide the Ring ID nor the Ring Height, which are very important parameters in guide selection.

The ForeCast Component Catalog provides this same level of detail for their reel seats, wood inserts, trolling butts, pre-formed Cork handles, EVA grips, butt caps, gimbals and winding checks. And they carry Gudebrod Thread, and Trondak U-40 and FlexCoat brands of Epoxies. They even carry a power wrapper & a dryer. With Batson, it’s “One-stop Shopping” at its best.

And the www.FishSticks4U.com website has ALL the component's details listed with each item. For each rod blank, and each rod component item & size. That helps a lot with blank & component selection, especially with the blank & line guides, IMO.

BATSON Components are top-grade in all their categories. And the folks at FishSticks4U can provide you the kind of full-line selection and service that makes you glad you shop with them. … Batson does it all and FishSticks4U has it all. It’s a great brand and vendor to cast your rod-building career into the 21st century at 20th century prices.

Sincerely, -Cliff Hall+++, Gainesville, FL-USA cmkmhall@ufl.edu

Batson Enterprises – Bringing you 21st century quality at 20th century prices.

FishSticks4U – A full-line Batson dealer, bringing you
“What you need, when you need it, with service & prices you’ll love.”

Luis - The old cone-of-flight guide layout may (big "maybe" here) give you an extra foot or two on a 100 foot cast compared to a Concept style guide layout, but there are better ways to increase your casting distance.

You can water load your plugs or try slinging tin (metal spoons) or use bigger plugs. Just by using supple, low-diameter 20# Fireline braid rather than stiffer and thicker nylon monofilament, you have probably gained more casting distance by this choice for fishing line than any other thing you could do, or any super-duper guide layout you could design.

IMO, the Concept guide layout will give you great casting and, IMO, even more importantly, will really improve the rods feel while fishing on the retrieve. If you keep your rod tip parallel to the water while retrieving those swimming plugs, you will soon feel the fatigue effects of an over-built cone-of-flight rod. If you were bait fishing, it wouldn't make much difference - you're rod tip would be nearly vertical most of the time. ...

But when swimming plugs, the rod tip is nearly horizontal much of the time, and any unnecessary weight in your rod tip will soon be felt after the first half hour of casting. ... Go as light as you can on the line guides on the upper half of the rod, using single foot Y-frame or V-frame or Fly-frame guides for any ring sizes of 16mm or below. ... IMO, -Cliff Hall+++

Cliff,
As a life long spinner fisherman I am afraid that I have to disagree with you, if I understand what you said. On any lure that is being retrieved the rod should be held so that the line is as straight from the lure to the reel as possible. This results in the least loss in feel due to line contact with the guides. I know that I will get some disagreement from some Bass fishermen but when the line from the lure goes straight to the reel with no guide contact there will be the maximum amount of feel.

Emory - For stripers & bluefish, I always fished my 5"-7" Rebels, Redfins, Atoms or Gibbs swimmers with my 9' fiberglass surf rod horizontal to the water, and the fishing line at a ~ 75-90 degrees angle to the rod blank.

Whenever the line was straight off my rod tip, I felt like the action of the plug was too jerky, or that it was too hard for me to tell if the retrieve was at the correct speed to give the plug the steady wobble I wanted. With the rod laid horizontal during the retrieve, I could sweep the rod in the plane of the surface of the water to set the hook and not lift the plug up toward the surface of the water during the retrieve or the hook set. If the hooks did not set, then the plug dove down, giving me another shot at a hit, instead of pulling the plug in a more upward direction.

Also, with the fishing line coming off the rod tip at a 75-90 degree angle during the retrieve, the rod tip would bend into the lure, and keep a steady tension and metered throb on the swimming plug, so I could FEEL & SEE the lure's action by watching the ROD TIP. This 90 degree angle helped me register the plug's speed and wobble, and take out any slack line, from the waves or current pushing the lure forward. Or the pace of the rod tip’s throb told me to slow down the retrieve, if the wave was back-washing or the current lulled down in some spot. That's the kind of feel that worked best for that kind of fishing for me. A steady pulse up the rod blank to my hand and a regular rhythm to the rod blank's vibrating tip.

Whenever I tried a straight retrieve like you seem to describe, Emory, I always felt like the REEL was receiving the transmission of the plugs throbbings – not my hand (sense of feel) nor my rod tip (sense of sight). I couldn’t feel the plug or tell if the speed was correct – and I distinctly remember saying that was not for me. But I would sometimes see other guys fishing more like that. Since I did not see them catching fish when I wasn’t, I never paid it much further attention. Because for me, I never really felt comfortable with it.

I think I got more depth on my retrieve because these floating swimming plugs did not get any slack from me, and tend to rise when the retrieve was too slow. And keeping my rod tip up held high at a 45 degree angle to the water (instead of flat horizontal) really seemed to keep these plugs too high in the water column.

I also distinctly remember wade-fishing one night in Turtle Cove, near Orchard Beach & City Island, NYC. And holding my rod tip very low to the water but straight out from me, and the line was also straight out at the rod tip. I lost track of just how far out this lure was that night. And I got a light tap on my Tri-Fin tube lure (sand) eel imitation, and thought it was a beast. I totally reared back, and sent that short striper flying over my head. It hit with ~ 10 feet of line out, and I couldn’t tell it until he was airborne, flying right towards me. If that lure had been a multi-treble hook plug, I could have buried a few points in myself. Or if that fish had hit me, I could have fallen off the rock I was on, filled my waders and frigging drowned that night.

I can assure you that I don’t fish like that anymore, where setting the hook can send the bullet straight for my head. I don’t fish for largemouth bass that much anymore, but while worm fishing is about the only time nowadays that I can think of when there is a real danger in converting a lure or weight into a flying bullet by the classic (reverse catapult) hook set. Having the butt wrap on the rod blank hit me over my shoulder is safer than over my nose & forehead. I just want to cross the fish's eyes, not my own.

The only kind of fishing that I can think of, at this moment, that I keep a straight line between me, the rod, the fishing line and the fish, is when diamond jigging or free-lining bait (chunk or live). When diamond jigging, the lure is usually on a fast retrieve, so there is no proper speed / “feel” information to transmit to me or for me to have to interpret. The SLAM speaks for itself. And when free-spooling / free-lining bait, – yeah, sure – the guides sometimes interfere with a smooth steady release of the line, and holding the rod at 90 degrees to the running line can make it worse. With stiff, cold nylon monofilament, (like Ande), that angle can impart a jerky release of or tension on the bait, which tips off the fish to something fishy.

The only thing I want the fish to feel is the stinging point of a triangle-filed hook. Feel this --->.

I think that for Luis Morales’s 9’ spinning surf rod for swimming plugs, I would think that holding the rod flat to the water and at a nearly right-angle to the lure while retrieving would give him the chance to test the benefits I described above for himself. … Different strokes for different folks, too. … IMO, … -Cliff Hall+++.