Roger that Tim,

LOL! LOL!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Tim.....me too!

Ernie....look for it this summer. The CP is the current project at the moment.

Regards,

Andy Dear
www.lamarfishing.com

Andy,
If it is their prerogative for a distributer to set the price they sell a product
at and I were to see a distributer do as described above, I would have to ask
myself, why did they do that? Reducing the price of a competitor and raising
the price of my newer product would trip my trigger to say the least! I would go off!!
Maybe that is my I am not a business man. Who knows?


Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Ray,
I set a minimun retail and the distribtor can stay with that or move up...it's up to them. I won't speak for Jonathan, but I can tell you he is a solid man with a lot of integrity, and he is a good businessman, so I am sure he has a reason.

I'll be going up on my price as well due to the increase in cost of petroleum based raw materials the world is experiencing. I suspect that many products we use will see an increase. There is also a substantial intermentent carbon fiber shortage at the moment also, so there may be a spike in the prices of carbon too.

Andy
www.lamarfishimg,com

Hi Andy ,

How is the Threadmaster with any yellowing for use on white wraps ?
Being a new product on the market yet, has there been any kinds of aging tests or ultraviolet testing done with it to determine any yellowing effects ?

Threadmaster seems like a product I should be trying this year for a new finish .

Thanks for a reply, as I haven't been able to read much on the forum lately and need to get caught up to speed.

Randy Wilinski

Thanks Andy,

Regardless of the price I will be trying Threadmaster soon as well as the
Diamondite I already have sitting on my shelf.
If you say Jonathan is top drawer then I believe that.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Randy
Check my website for the UV tests. The test stick was in Charlotte and folks were blown away. As well we have had finish tests done in an accelerated weather chamber on several occasions, and the results mirrored that of my actual Texas Torture Test last July, AUgust and Sept.. That's the beauty of ThreadMaster is the longterm water clear clarity properties.
Do a search on the forum and you'll get tons of good info.

Both Jonathan Britt at Angler's Wkshp.and Karen Hapka at Bingham Ent. are great people, Karen I believe is running a special on ThreadMaster at the moment, so it would be a good time to try it.

Andy Dear
www.lamarfishing.com

Raymond,
The MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price) is not the key. The key price is the price that the manufacturer charges the distributor. Lets say that you have two products that have the same MSRP but one charges the distributor 70% of the MSRP while another charges 50% of the MSRP. Lets also assume that the distributor thinks that to stay in business and to make a buck that he has to sell both products at 40% over what he is charged. The distributor will try to sell the first product at about 10% over the MSRP and the second product at about 10% under the MSRP. There are a few manufacturers that try to force their distributors to sell their products at the MSRP but not very many. So the important price is not the MSRP. The important price, at least to the distributor, is the price that he is charged. Just as the important price for the rod builder is not the MSRP it is also the price that he is charged.

Thanks Emory,
This thread is taking a road far away from where it started and I am partly to blame. I think I will start another thread after I chew on this a little.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I'm kind of surprised to see such a thing get brought up on this board.

For the common people like myself, if we like a product enough to pay extra $$ for it, we will. If not, we won't. If one distributor is too expensive, time to look elsewhere. Pretty simple. We never see who charges what % and what not, and most people probably don't care or never think about it.

I think pretty highly of both of you, hope things smooth out well.

Tight lines,
Phil

Back to the original comments... I removed a wrap I did with Threadmaster and didn't really notice any greater difficulty removing it than with any other epoxy wrap. The wrap had been cured for about 4 days. A litlle heat, a little blade, a little fingernail action and it seemed to come off pretty well from a glossy blank.

As for the finish... I am now a convert. The viscosity is just about perfect in my opinion. Thin enough to lay a down a thin coat and handle easily but thick enough to cover the threads well... usually in one or two fewer coats than I normally would use. I also find it much easier to get a uniform coat on my final application. I don't have to fuss with it nearly as much as some others in order to get a perfect final application.

I've been doing some marblizing with it as well and I like it better for that purpose than LS Supreme. The thicker viscosity allows your swirls to stay put... the colors don't bleed into eachother as easily.

I do notice that it seems to be a substantially stiffer and possibly harder finish than others I've been using. I notice this by flexing the film that is left over on my foil the next day. It's still flexible... just not as soft as LS Supreme when cured. Of course this is only a qualitative comparison and I'm not sure if it really matters one way or the other, but thought it worth mentioning.

Good job Andy... you were spot on with this one!

Erik

Thanks dude....the kind words are much appreciated.

Man, I just noticed that this thread has 651 views. Maybe Emory and I should start an argument more often! Like they say, there is no such thing as bad publicity.
Hey, maybe we should have these arguments live online via webcam somewhere. We could make it like the rodbuilders version of the Jerry Springer show. We could argue about finish pricing, blank modulus, pimp-slap each other, beat each other over the head with 130lb class trolling blanks, all the while girls take their clothes off and wrestle in pool of ThreadMaster......Kirkman could host, Vivona could be the bouncer.....it'd be fantastic eh? Like White Trash Rodbuilder's heaven.

Hhhmmm....me thinks I just may have come up with an added attraction for next years Sat. night banquet at the Charlotte show.


Andy Dear
www.lamarfishing.com

Andy,

To be true to this thread as well as other comments on the board, there should be girls wrestling not only in Threadmaster, but also in LS Supreme, Flexcoat (both Hi-build and Lite), etc. Further perhaps, one of the contestants in each brand of finish should have been treated with color preserver before the match, and the other not. Then all observers could rate the finshes on a variety of qualities to be determined prior to the matches. In other words, conduct a true "scientific" comparison, something which is often missing when folks compare products within this forum.

Bilgee

Odd, I haven't seen much difference in price between any of the major brands. We'd be talking pennies per rod at the most. What is great performance and longevity worth in additional cost per rod? That's something the individual will have to decide for himself.

.....

Tim,

I did find that when working in cool temps, say below about 68F, the Threadmaster held bubbles. But, so do most of the other epoxies as well. Best to work about about 75F or so for best overall results.

I wouldn't worry over the adhesion to the blank. Keep in mind that most such products aren't made with the idea that the guides will be removed and replaced every so often. Normally, we'd consider a guide wrap and its epoxy coating to be a permanent mount.

.........

Tom,
I would agree that if you are only using a small amount of epoxy then the difference in price is not as important as the characteristics of the epoxy. However,if you are using a lot of epoxy then the difference in price is more significant. Your statement "great performance and longevity" is a little over the edge don't you think? That sounds like something Andy would say. I have no doubt that Threadmaster will hold up well but it has only been out a short time and we do not know about its longevity and "great performance"? Is that great performance versus other epoxies? I don't buy that either.

One probably shouldn't count too heavily on what "they say" as being accurate in every case!

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"

Since I only build a rod every month or two for myself I am not looking at profit margins, but if I were to add up the cost of the rod and compare what I would have spent at a retail fly rod maker then I know that I have still saved a lot not to mention any customizations and improvements I might accomplish. I liken this to fly tying material. I can cut corners and buy cheaper hooks and hackle, but in the end I would probably end up spending more due to the hooks breaking or wasting more hackle. Sometimes I cringe when I see prices that I think are too much, but I try to ask myself if there is any hidden cost with cheaper alternatives. Lastly, I am willing to pay a fair price for a quality product that someone has put a lot of care and expertise into. Andy can't give the stuff away. He has to put food on the table too.

Emory,

The thing is, this isn't repackaged epoxy from another intended market. It was formulated specifically for use on fishing rods and there has been a lot of back and forth on formulating it to do things that other epoxies sold for rod building won't or don't. I won't throw off on other epoxies such as Flex Coat, because quite simply, they work. And they have worked for many, many years, very, very well. It's not a matter of any of these products being bad (they aren't) just that some are more specifically made for what we ask them to do on a fishing rod. So it's not bad and good, it's good and better.

However, I've used about all the epoxies on the market and quite extensively at that. Andy has come up with a product that other companies are going to have to respond to. Ralph O'Quinn, who knows a thing or two about the epoxy finish business, is already back up in WA working on an improvement to the LS Supreme hardener component. He is doing this in response to Andy's finish, which he readily admits is a very fine product. (And whatever Ralph comes up with in response will surely be a fine product as well.)

I can't and won't guess anybody's pocketbook. We all have our own way of rationalizing what we can or can't afford in regards to how much money we spend on a fishing rod. If I thought a new finish would even marginally improve something on my rods, I'd easily go an extra $1 per rod, and Andy's finish certainly won't add anywhere near that amount to anybody's rods, regardless of how many they build each year. But this is just my personal feelilng on the matter, and I'm very much aware that different builders judge economy of scale differently than I do.

.............